Transcript has been auto-generated and may contain errors. Your support on our patreon would go towards being able to provide a human-edited transcript for accessibility.
We acknowledge the Yuggera and Kaurna nations as traditional custodians of the land on which we work, live and learn, and their continuing connection with the land waters and community. We pay our respects to them and their elders past and present.
All content related to this programme is for general informational purposes only and contains stories and discussions around mental health that may be disturbing to some listeners.
If you’re concerned about yourself or someone you know, please seek professional individual advice and support. More details are contained in our show notes.
00:00:33 (Intro Skit)
NARRATOR: This week in Once Upon a Time travel, 2002’s Lonely Louise is visited by the ghost of future self at New Year’s
FX – party, large crowd, the sounds of new year
MC: OK everyone, before I drop some more sick beats, grab your new year’s partner for that midnight pash, and if you can’t find your own partner, borrow somebody else’s!
Young Louise: (drunk, loud) Pash me Mr. DJ!
MC: Whoa! Looks like someone’s on the prowl for their new year’s resolution!
Young Louise: Pucker up and taste baby, New Year!
MC: Didn’t I see you vomiting earlier? Not sure I want to be tasting any of that, thank you ma’am! 30 seconds! Get those glasses ready!
Young Louise: You wish you could taste this!
FX: Like a genie entering
Young Louise: Fu- wha… who the fuck are you?
Today Louise: I’m the ghost of Louise Future, and I’ve come let you know it gets better
Young Louise: Get off it lady, I’m not into chicks
Today Louise: Well, I’ve got some news for you there…
(In the background, the crowd counts down to midnight, cheering as the new year emerges)
Young Louise: What do you want?
Today Louise: I just want to let you know that even though you’re going to end up crying in the gutter later tonight, and drunk dialing your unrequited crush at 3am, future you knows her value and has found people who see her for who she is. You don’t have to pretend to be someone you’re not anymore.
Young Louise: Happy New Year!
Today Louise: Louise
Young Louise: Why won’t somebody love me?
Today Louise: They will, and more importantly, you’ll love yourself
Young Louise: I just want one new year’s pash! (starts crying)
Today Louise: Um… I’m just gonna… slip away now, but please don’t do anything silly
Scene fades as Today Louise flashes away
FX: Knocking on an internal (bedroom) door, door opens
NARRATOR: Meanwhile, back in 1991, younger repressed Andy is interrupted “in the middle of something”
Yesterday Andy: Oh, hi
Andy’s Friend: Andy Pandy! What’s your dandy?
Yesterday Andy: Just trying to get some study done. Got my major essay due next week and I haven’t started writing it yet. It’s all… up here, you know?
Andy’s Friend: You’ll shit it in, you always do. Come down to the uni bar tonight. The Doors cover band’s playing
Yesterday Andy: Oh… nah… I really need to
Andy’s Friend: Vanessa will be there… she really likes you
FX: Genie like sound as today Andy flashes in
Yesterday Andy: Um, who are you?
Today Andy: Hey! The Ghost of Andy Future! I’m you in about 30 years’ time
Yesterday Andy: I knew that weed floating through the dorm was affecting me
Today Andy: Nah, I’m just here to tell you to relax. Have a bit of fun, life doesn’t have to be so serious
Yesterday Andy: But I really don’t feel like going out to the bar, it’s just full of loud drunk people
Today Andy: Dude, I’m you and it’s the early 90’s, I know why you don’t want to risk losing your inhibitions
Yesterday Andy: I don’t know what you’re talking about – I’ve got a mountain of study to do. I don’t have time for a girlfriend
Today Andy: Fine, but you don’t have to have to drink to be included. People love your sense of humour and who you are regardless.
Yesterday Andy: I just don’t feel like I fit in
Today Andy: And you’re gonna realise why in two years time you get a massive crush on a guy in one of your classes and write him a love letter with the lyrics to I Honestly Love You
Yesterday Andy: Oh. So does that work?
Today Andy: Nah. But you find someone much better for yourself. You’ve got a whole life ahead of you, my friend. You won’t get this part of your life back again. Just put the books down for one night and go out with your friends. You don’t have to drink.
FX: Genie disappears
Andy’s Friend: Just come out for one drink
Yesterday Andy: (sigh) OK, I think I’ll pass on the drink, but I’d love to come anyway.
Andy’s Friend: Cool! We love your company! See you at seven!
NARRATOR: Next time in Once Upon a Time travel, more people ignore their future selves and make the same choices anyway
00:04:33 Louise (Normal, Podcast Intro)
You know, Andy? I don’t think that past me would have listened to future me if I’d zapped there.
And I definitely wasn’t ready to hear what current me would have had to say.
Back then either.
Those scenes are very close to home, aren’t they?
Yeah, and this.
Is re frame of mind.
The podcast that cuts through the platitudes and gets to the core of living authentically, challenging our assumptions and improving mental health with the guidance of good science, philosophy and learning from other people, lived experiences.
We’re your hosts Andy Le Roy and Louise Poole.
I think we’re on a bit of a hero’s journey. I suppose you could say Andy.
00:05:04 Speaker 8
Yeah, we’re definitely putting it all out there on.
The line in our quest to.
Maintain good mental health.
’cause unfortunately we don’t have a time machine and we can’t actually go back and change things. Gotta start from where we are.
Which at the start of the podcast series was you’d recently lost your father to cancer and died? Ended my 20-year radio career.
So, we’ve been looking at the traumas of adjusting to our new worlds and we’ve covered quite a bit of ground in.
Trying to find.
A way to relate differently to the world.
One in which we love.
And value ourselves.
Yeah, and honour ourselves with strong boundaries when it comes to living our values, but sometimes it’s something more than conversation and perspective alone doesn’t fix it.
Yes, last episode. We had a pretty in-depth conversation with Professor Marie Teesson. See she’s the director of the Matilda Centre for Research in Mental Health and substance use on mental health and addiction.
Yeah, and because she gave us so much information, we thought we thought.
So much information.
That would be great just to break it down a little bit and refer back to some of those points and just look at it.
From our current perspective.
You know, as people will often tell me that hindsight is a wonderful thing. So yeah, hopefully in this case our hindsight might help someone who is.
Now where we were.
About 18 years ago.
You know, I’ve often thought if I could have a conversation with me from 18 plus years ago, what things I would say and what advice I?
Honestly, I don’t know if I would.
Listen, yeah, it’s.
One of those things that.
Crops up pretty often on social media.
Isn’t it like if you could say 3 words to your 20 years ago? So, what would they be? I mean, I know the things that are important.
To me now, but honestly.
Like invest in Apple.
Dappled like it’s at that stage it.
Would have been like.
The old record label that The Beatles had wouldn’t have even kind of hear the radar, although that computer, I suppose. But you know I.
I just don’t think.
That we can necessarily think that if we had that information then that we would have actually acted differently. But you know, you never know, do you?
Good news is though that passed me actually would have listened to somebody else talk about the subject and actually gone.
Well, that’s a good point, even though I would have thought that future me was full of **** So hopefully because we’re actually not talking to past Louise and Andy, someone actually might get some value out of this one before they have to go down the future US paths themselves.
Fingers crossed so.
I think I think that I confuse that as much as a time travel paradox.
Well, let’s hop straight back into.
The subject matter that we.
Had with Marie and when.
We’re talking about substance is what do we mean?
I think most commonly there’s things like alcohol or cigarettes. We say drugs a lot, and that obviously has.
A few different meanings.
Yeah, so you know. I mean, I’ve been a smoker in the past and we’ve all had a drink, or I say all, but we can’t always make that generalization.
But you know, sometimes these substances aren’t legal.
But they’re the.
Ones that can have monstrous effects from people and.
The people who love them.
And often the people around us are suffering in silence. As Marie pointed out when she spoke about how long it takes for people to ask for help.
People do run into problems with alcohol. There’s a sense of shame and stigma, and it’s just devastating we see for people who have problems with alcohol, it can take up to 18 years before they’ll talk to anyone about those problems. That can mean they can start to have problems when they’re 18 or 19.
And they really wait until their mid 30s before they say to a GP or to a friend. Hey, I think I’m, you know, this is really interfering with my life and maybe I need to do something about this.
That can take 18 years.
Now Andy, I know that I have thus far 15 episodes into re frame of mind received a lot of free therapy from our guests.
I’m not afraid to not afraid to milk it for my.
Own free therapy.
You got to put it out there.
And if they’re willing, why wouldn’t you?
And Marie is exceptionally qualified so.
And very giving.
Why not try and get my free therapy from Marie as I had the audacity to compare my depression and anxiety with addiction to substances.
00:08:58 Speaker 5
But that thing that she said about the research around it taking people 18 plus years to ask for help, really struck a chord.
It’s a long time, isn’t it? Like we don’t think of that lead up time or people I guess suffering for so long are they suffering as much in the beginning as they are at?
That 18-year point.
Don’t know, but it is a long.
Time when you think about it from.
In the pot it’s what I say. You know it starts off with something small as I can handle this.
The next thing you know times gone by the pots boiling and the frogs just.
In there, chilling.
Like you don’t realise how much of the heat is turned up and how bad of a situation you’re in until it starts to affect your life.
I have a goldfish memory, you know this.
Yeah, I do.
Every day I’m reminded.
By you saying I’ve.
Got goldfish memory or you are forgetting something.
But I’m reminded.
I mean, I actually I think the goldfish probably have better memories than me. That’s how bad it is. I’m really good at remembering obscure bits of information and the overall concept and feelings of so.
If not so great at remembering things that maybe I’ve done or we’ve experienced or often I will hear a story from somebody telling me something that I’ve done in the past, and I think, oh yeah, that sounds.
Like something I do.
Because I can probably quote somebody verbatim from 25 years ago.
And so, it’s handy to have you around Andy, because we worked together in Darwin, and you can remind me of things like did you actually smoke then?
Yeah, I did.
I was a smoker back then, the 2009. Yeah, I was probably at the peak of my smoking my smoking habit so.
I would have been in May.
Or roughly a pack a day is kind of where I averaged at, I’d say.
Yeah, like hearing it for the first time. Honestly, I can’t remember you ever.
Smoking you wouldn’t.
All of those breakfasts that we had down at Cullen Bay and dragged out the ashtray and.
Before the meal came.
Not gone from my memory, which is good because now I can interview like I’ve never heard the story.
Go for it. Is this my therapy time? This is my.
OK yeah. Well I don’t charge as much as Marie I imagine I mean.
Therapy session OK.
Well, you better not.
So, when did you start smoking?
OK, there’s a couple of tears to this answer because I tried to start smoking and then I actually was successful in starting smoking. ’cause it does take practice you know.
It’s a skill.
He needs it.
One like this best not learned.
So, the first time I thought that I would actually like to become a smoker was when I was in university and OK.
So, I’m going to have a bit of the goldfish effect here, and I can’t remember whether it was my first year or my third year.
My final year, I think it was my final year of UNI. Pretty sure that was the so that would have been about 94.
About 1994 when I.
Thought **** it, I’m just going to have a smoke.
Was that stress related? Do you think there was so much going on that you thought it would? Or was that kind of everybody else is doing it situation?
Yeah, it wasn’t what everybody else was doing. Definitely because I don’t think I knew a lot of smokers, only a couple of smokers, but I didn’t feel inclined to want to kind of join a peer group with it for me in 1994 when I decided that I was.
Going to try and smoke was me actually coming too.
The conclusion that I didn’t want to be here anymore, and if smoking was one way to die, then I might as well add that to the list of possibilities.
So, I remember sitting down by one of the lakes on the university campus and rolling myself a cigarette, thinking, Oh well, he’s an alum. Mcguffin sounds very dramatic, doesn’t it?
It’s very sad.
And yes, that’s I’m sorry that yeah.
00:12:39 Speaker 7
I’ll just make.
Myself to death.
I’m sorry you ever felt that way. That’s not a nice Place to have been.
No, it’s not a nice place to have been. Clearly, I’m OK with it now talking about it, but if I think back to that period and what led me to that endpoint of why I decided to then reach for a cigarette because I wanted to kill myself. But a silly way to do it. But anyway, people do kill themselves every.
Day with cigarettes so.
I, I guess what led me to that was, you know, a big picture of me not being myself, me feeling like I had to be somebody else, me feeling excluded in some way or other.
But also, you know within that me excluding myself from situations for different reasons, you know at that sketch at the beginning of today’s episode.
You know with young Andy and older Andy and that sort of things like that. That was me. That was me saying, looking, I’ve got time for a girlfriend so my grandmother haven’t got time for a girlfriend ’cause I’ve got too much study.
Study that is that is that why you didn’t have time for.
A girlfriend, is it?
That’s what he maintained. This well maintained at that age, so there’s all of that kind of underlying stuff there.
That made me really not value myself to.
The point where.
I thought Oliver smoke and have a smoke, but I didn’t. I didn’t actually succeed, so I think I got through.
One in football? Actually, that’s ******* disgusting. And I actually don’t want to.
Smoke didn’t fix the actual underlying issue, mind you, but then kind of put the tobacco always a stupid idea and just kind of persevered.
All right, so 1994 you took up smoking briefly and then you stopped again, but you was to start. So, if you were smoking when we were in Darwin.
Yeah, I actually.
Then there’s more story.
Oh yeah, there’s definitely more so.
Well, what’s the story?
00:14:21 Speaker 8
Well, tell me about.
The worst times in your life. Louise is listening.
00:14:25 Speaker 5
This is the second tier of the story of anti starts smoking where in 1995 I had come out of the closet.
As we colloquially say, when homosexuals decide to declare to the world their homosexual, because that’s what everybody does.
00:14:44 Speaker 2
Hello, I’m heterosexual who ’cause you didn’t have.
Time for a girlfriend. So, you found a.
Boyfriend in his day.
Perfect, uh boyfriend instead?
So anyway, 1995. I actually had finished my course, so I graduated like so towards the end of my final year of UNI.
I was starting to experiment, and I was starting to you get in touch with that part that touches me.
That kind of thing.
00:15:10 Speaker 6
This is the precursor to Andy sexy sluty times from like episode 5, I think.
Some years before some years before actually when you met me, I was kind of at the tail end of that. But anyway, I digress so.
So, 1995 I’m processing a lot emotionally and a lot personally.
Because for me how it panned out was OK. Well, I came out to myself.
And you know, as a.
Lot of people who go.
Through the coming out process will tell you find people to test the safety of a width.
So, I had a friend at the time who had recently come out himself, so he was a pretty safe bet that I could say, hey, by the way.
Me too kind of thing and then I found a few more people, but nobody in my family. Because you know, we’ve talked about that in previous episode.
That’s how being gay wasn’t OK and that was very much kind of promoted in conversations. So, I kind of had this sense that you know, I needed to keep it quiet, but you can’t keep it quiet.
There comes a point where you’ve got to actually be true to yourself, and so 1995 was the year that I came out to my family come.
Whole other story, the smoking part of it. I met this guy, and he was cute man he was.
Yeah man, drop that one in.
He was nice. He was 1995 sexy so like what does he? What did he look like Jeremy Jordan or?
He was a bit shorter than me. He had, you know, nice short hair like it wasn’t a crew cut, but he had a nice style and.
He had not totally, but with a bit more attention, probably could have had, like a had a really cute Lantern jaw like headline.
Did look like a boy band.
Member no OK.
Really cute square jawline and he’s a great kisser. He was a really great kisser, and for someone who has just met their first boyfriend, obviously.
He’s the one and he just kissing, kissing, kissing and he was a smoker. You know we’d be sitting in the back area at the piano bar at the Aubrey Hotel, which.
It’s a gay bar that’s long closed down now, but you know we’d be smooching or whatever. And you know, spending time with their friends.
But he would take a drag from his cigarette and then he would turn to me and kiss me. But he would actually then blow the smoke into my mouth.
I’m sorry, sexy.
Is that sexy? ’cause that sounds just ******* gross.
Well, suppose it turned me on at the time.
My best you know, and I’ll bet you there’s a category on ******* just for that.
But think of it.
I’m sure there is.
Haven’t gone there, but the look on the sort of it is then that introduced me very mildly to cigarette smoke in my system.
Wildly but mildly it through it right down your guts is what?
It did well, yeah, through right in my guts.
But it also had already been in his guts. So, he.
Was it was?
Diluted pre smoked smoke Yum.
Because passive smoke is to me like not as strong as smoked directly from the pipe.
Would you call that passive?
I don’t know if you.
I’m going to call it recycled smoke.
Yeah, it’s not quite passive path.
My point is, my point is yes it was gross and all, and also that the smoke didn’t cut into my lungs the same way it does when you’re taking it directly from the cigarettes.
So, your point is, yes you were gross, yes.
Again, I don’t necessarily believe that to be fact we’ll have to ask. We’re going to.
You can fight you.
Have to one day we’re going to talk to Maria again and we’re going to have to say Marie now as a hypothetical.
You’re going have to try it.
OK, now look, I know but listen like that that that was my experience orbit though. So, you know what I mean? So, for me like.
That was, yeah, yeah, I, I know.
Taking it so seriously.
I know, but you got to have your fun. But you’ve also got a, you know I’m not being a scientist.
Mm-hmm, but that got you addicted again. That’s when you that’s when you picked it.
Up for a second time, yeah.
Well, I hadn’t been addicted, but what it did though was then, you know, over the course of time, because now I was in a peer group of smokers. So, then someone would offer me a cigarette. At first, I declined. But then.
I thought I will be. I’ll try one as you do because I’d been primed with that secondhand smoke.
It didn’t have the same choking effects as it would have when I was trying it at the lake a year or so earlier. So, then I started to become a smoker, and that’s when I really started smoking. And then, you know, I met my first long term partner.
After that guy and he was a smoker. So yeah, we were too old smoking Queens together. You know you would.
We’d wake up and have a cigarette, then have our morning coffee that.
It developed overtime like that. It became a habit I didn’t consciously at the time when I was kissing that guy and receiving the smoke into my lungs via him.
Think that I’d like to be a smoker, but the other things in the background there with the people that I was hanging out with and enjoying the company.
I felt like I wanted to be included.
In in more.
Ways you know. I remember the year prior I felt like I wasn’t included. I didn’t belong.
You trying quick in that time, when did you first try to quit then?
Oh, good night.
00:20:09 Speaker 2
That probably would.
Have been probably late 90s, so we’re talking mid 90s. When I took it up. Always very conscious of how bad it is for me though, so really.
Kind of thinking.
I really don’t want to do this, but.
Yeah, actually that kind of the messaging around the quick campaigns of the late 90s was quite aggressive, I think so, and that’s even when I think they started to put the damage on the actual cigarette packets, isn’t it? So, every time you open it up?
Whatever you know.
00:20:29 Speaker 2
You see someone missing a hand.
That was late 90s from memory, so it wasn’t long after I started because what happened?
Was when they introduced that because nobody wanted to look at the gross amputated limbs or look at the lungs or look at the dying baby on that was now on their cigarette packet.
The cigarette companies would produce tins that didn’t have those images on them but had their brand on it. So, you’d buy the soft packs of the cigarettes and put them in that in so that you know you had your nice sturdy.
Nice and you had you had you Ziggy’s? That didn’t have the reminders of how?
Bad they are for you.
And that’s pink capitalism right there.
Absolutely, absolutely so. Now that you found a way to not have to look at the lungs, the dying.
Lungs on the front of the pack.
It’s did that help you quit no.
So, you know the motivation to quit came about.
Because my parents weren’t smokers.
They didn’t smoke or my dad smoked when I was quite young. He go up in 1982 when I was about 11 years old, so.
Uh, my mum tried to have a smoke once but then one day when I saw my grandmother, I said yeah Mom smokes and then she never smoked again.
I don’t know why when I was a smoker and I was with my first long term partner, his parents were smokers, and we would observe how it was impacting their health and they would try and quit every now and then.
So would go something like this, you know. Like they both quit. So yep, I’ve given up the smokes. Smokers call from that kind of stuff happening. So good time to give up. And then.
One of them would start sneaking cigarettes behind the other ones back and spray things around so they wouldn’t get busted, but they knew, and so they’ve got to the point where they’re both kind of cheating behind each other’s back with the cigarettes.
So, when we go under the shade and have a cigarette and one would go out to the front garden and have neither of them acknowledging that they eat that they were smoking themselves or they knew the other ones were smoking and then it all came out and then start smoking again.
So, you know all these funny little patterns that kind of happened in the people around us. You know, a partner and I at the time thought, OK, we should probably stop.
’cause you know, we don’t know kind of end up in bad health. You know 80 years. So, we decided to quit.
And we tried a few times, but there’s one time that does actually like hit my memory quite strongly, and we both given up together and we’re really, really happy with the money or saving and the progress we’ve made were about a month in.
And I thought I’m going to. I’m going to buy a three awards CD. I’m going to buy us some music.
As a celebration that we’ve got this far.
A reward CD people used to play.
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And you know you think of the money you save so you think OK, well with the money I would have smoked I’m now buying this CD. It’s a pretty common kind of quick tactic.
00:23:14 Speaker 6
Doesn’t that speak?
A lot for how much the price of.
Cigarettes has gone up though like.
Back then, a month of savings got you a.
CD and now.
It probably gets you half a motorcycle.
Well, I don’t know if it would.
Have been a full month for a CD there.
Was it part of a CD club though? Maybe it got you a membership to a.
CD club no, not even that I.
It was just like me going OK. Well, this is something that I actually definitely wouldn’t have purchased if I was smoking because I wouldn’t have had enough money to do it. The American but now can buy this and I can do other stuff.
Out with it.
Who was it?
Come on out with it, it’s going to be embarrassing, isn’t it?
That’s great, it was KD Lang.
Was Katie Lang? She’s a great artist. Sadly, the release that she had at the time was her CD called Drag, which for anyone who doesn’t know, is a CD full of songs that are about smoking.
00:24:03 Speaker 2
Which I didn’t actually realise I knew. I kind of knew, but I didn’t. It didn’t kind.
Of click that.
That would be a bad idea to listen to a full CDs worth of songs about the joys and ups and downs of smoking.
And my partner.
Said to me, you’ve brought us a CD.
About smoking and within a week, we’re both back on them.
But you know, props to you for supporting the lesbians of the 90s with, you know.
Totally, I love Katie Lang. It’s grace.
00:24:32 Speaker 2
All I need is the air that I breathe.
00:24:36 Speaker 2
We use that to love you.
Was that on there?
Was there a song on the album about inhaling someone secondhand smoke from Apache?
I don’t think I don’t think so.
So, it’s not. It’s not a common thing, then it’s not.
I don’t think it’s uncommon.
I think I.
Think there are certain. I think there are certain places where you will find people blowing smoke.
Into each other, I do find certain places where people blow smoke up their ***** so.
You did try to quit. Reward yourself with KD Lang’s drag and then fail. OK. What was the success in Darwin then when you gave that up?
No, I didn’t give up in Darwin was still smoking down.
Actually, I’d continued smoking until 2012, by which time I admit my current partner, who every time I lived a cigarette would go.
Yeah, you’re disgusting. Stop it, put it away, yuck. I’m not sitting nearly all that kind of stuff which actually also didn’t motivate me to stop smoking.
But there with.
Ben Motivate you to hide it.
It motivated me to smoke away from him. Definitely because who needs.
That, but also.
Contributing factors to help me stop were things like I wasn’t smoking inside like I was with my first partner. We would both smoking indoors on my God when we moved.
Out of our place that we were renting, and we decided to clean a little patch on the wall.
We actually ended up having to clean the whole room because that little patch was actually nicotine, and it exposed a really bright patch of the wall which was really.
Obvious, don’t smoke, don’t smoke.
All these things yeah, all these things are truly reinforcing my happiness at having never picked up smoking as a habit.
To be honest.
Yeah, for sure beat be joyful.
Be glad at that.
I can see how you easily fell into that pattern of becoming addicted to smoking and I.
Think I could have fell into that pattern of being addicted to smoking. It’s not hard to be in that place.
The only reason I think that smoking never appealed to me is ’cause my father was a heavy smoker and he used to, well, I think he was a bit in that situation as well. He was constantly trying to quit. You know Mum didn’t let him smoke around.
The house or anything, so we’d have to kind of hide out at the back of the shed like it’s his dirty little secret.
And I notice like in the UNI had sometimes you know there’d be like empty cigarette packets shaft underneath the seat and down behind it like hiding.
Merman and he, you know, have a beer down in his shed and he’d smell like cigarettes and smoke. And I think that combination for me that smell of cigarettes, beer and I think sweat like sweaty man.
I mean, you know in certain circumstances, but that the.
Look, I’ve heard it. I’ve heard it does it for you earlier in.
The episode but.
I just anytime I smell those things, particularly together, it makes me feel like I think I associate sometime.
Is some of.
The negative experiences that I had as a keyed and some of that trauma that we’ve discussed in previous episodes with that, and so I’ve never wanted to pick up smoking because it feels like that, and that was. That’s something that I didn’t want to be in.
So, what about?
Your friends at school and like 3 university or even through like working in radio like because people love to have a smoke.
Mediaeval art, yes.
Yeah, I think I’ve been the odd one out in terms of that, I would say in my personal life I probably look. There’s not many things that would be.
What I would call a deal breaker when it comes to relationships with people, whether they be friendships or romances.
But honestly, smoking is probably one of them. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have friends who smoke, but I definitely 100% wouldn’t have a relationship with somebody who smokes, and that is purely because of that kind of.
PTSD around that form. 8 that smell.
Yeah, so any ladies listening? No smokers play.
00:28:27 Speaker 2
What like I got the same problem with moustaches, so that’s a whole different story. That’s not right, that’s not a.
Why we’ve never kissed.
That’s it’s not a childhood story that goes back to a first relationship, and maybe the subject of another podcast. But no, I also could not date somebody with a moustache.
Sorry I it’s not. It’s not a reflection.
The filter again.
On you as.
A person, it’s me. It’s absolutely on me.
Like I do have a couple of good friends who smoke and now and I’ve just been honest with them with my boundaries like one of my dear friends, he has tried to quit over the, you know, ten years or so.
I’ve known him so many times and he has done it and he’s you know he’s been smoke free for a year or so and then, uh, situation has come up.
And then I notice he’s carrying around his little rollies again. I know he really wants to give it up, so for me to be around a friend like that, that’s fine because he respects my boundaries and will never make me sit in the same room and blow smoke in my face. You know you’ll go out to the balcony or go out to the car park and that’s.
Yeah, and look. Yeah, there were times in between finally giving up that I was successful for maybe a year or so.
Only one job.
That I was in I was particularly stressed in, and I had stopped smoking. But I decided one lunch time to go down and buy some cigarettes and sit.
There is Circular Quay and have a smoke because I just I, couldn’t I? I couldn’t deal with what was going on and I didn’t want to be there.
Like he came down to that, I just don’t want to be here. What’s my quickest?
To Skype, it wasn’t as suicidal ideations. At that point it was actually ****** I just I can’t deal with this.
What’s my best route of escape my best route of escape is just too so. Now with a cigarette and you know that allowed the chemicals to do whatever they did to me to relax me.
It’s interesting that you should identify smoking as a coping mechanism.
Marie told us about a model that she came up with for personality types and how their coping strategies might make them actually more prone to addiction.
One way of thinking about this is Harry Potter. For me, you’ve got the shyness and the awkwardness in Hermione.
You’ve got that sort of more negative thinking more seeing the doom and gloom in the world. If you think about Ron Weasley.
And the third set in the triumphant is Harry. And Harry said, go get he’s a sensation seeker. And that’s the third group of ways of thinking about teenagers and the 4th group is more the impulsive kids, and I think Voldemort or Tom Riddle.
Is the most impulsive kid you can imagine.
OK, so going by memory model here, I’m definitely on, you know like.
You worry wart.
I know like Mom used to call me that all the.
Time and it’s going well. You just buying.
Again, you’re a worry wart.
You know the worry? Juju does run pretty strong, so it’s no surprise that I was a smoker for on and off. Here’s the magic #17 years.
Yeah, close to those 18 years definitely. Yeah, I reckon I’m relating hard to Hermione.
I mean, I, I guess you would say now I’m not shy and awkward. Well, actually no, you’d still say I’m awkward now for sure, but maybe not shy.
But certainly, when I was in the adolescence, the young adult ages, I would describe myself as a bit shy, definitely awkward. That’s never changed. It’s just, perhaps my awkwardness is.
Become a little bit more popular quirkiness.
Is cool now.
Yeah, absolutely. And also, when I only had.
A cat yeah, she.
Did so you know. Ron had a rat though, so, have you?
Got a rat?
I’ve got a cat called Mouse does.
That count Ron had a rap that.
Was actually a.
Human, yeah, I haven’t got one of those, so I wasn’t behind the game.
Yeah, what if you would what if?
What if your cat called Mouse is secretly an old man called Fred?
In what sometimes I think he is because I bust him regularly seeing on my chair on the front porch.
I’ll go out there. He’s like lazing back. He looks up at me like yeah, what do you want? I think I might actually have a cat called mouse. That is a human called feed.
Called Fred an old man called Fred he’s.
An old man course.
That’s not one of Marie’s characters, though in working at personality types.
We can pitch it to her next time maybe.
She can do a whole Flintstones model.
I think we all have a little bit of Voldemort, nice though a little bit of that impulsive Tom Riddle, although we haven’t really tried.
I think that’s the thing.
To kill everybody and a massive wizard fight.
Though it’s not easy.
You know, I’d like to.
Think that all of us have got a little bit of all of those things in there, but like what Mary is getting at is that these trays are kind of.
And I say trace because somebody says trays and I always say traits normally, but I do think I think trace is actually the correct way.
Yeah, you just say trays. I know you said I say traits too, but yeah, traces the correct way of saying it.
I’m going to defer to Marie.
On this one, it’s no.
Surprise that Marie is smarter.
Than us, I suppose. Well, no, no.
Myself dumping name.
But no, I think that her model is it great in highlighting that you know there are so.
And trace that actually do become more prominent in US, you know, like.
I was unknown.
Warrior, so it it’s useful to be able to say OK.
Well, look, you know young Andy over there worries a lot so he might be prone to doing this. He might be prone to becoming a smoker because could quite easily become addicted to that habit. That one reason.
Or another suits him or maybe young Louise.
Who was a little bit shy and awkward? Needed a drink for social lubrication?
I know and you know, like the 90s, the 1990s. There was a binge drinker dream.
Yeah, like I, I suppose we were both.
Drinking in the same era even there were ten years apart like.
Close to the same era, 90s nineties Andy would have been drinking. But yeah, I actually think it was more like 2001 Louise that probably started drinking.
Close to the same year.
So, you would, yeah you were drinking too. Maybe MC Hammer and I was drinking to Britney Spears. That’s the difference.
Oh OK, you’re very late 90s thing.
I was binge drinking to groove is in the heart.
OK, yeah, here’s the question that will separate us.
What was your first night clubbing song?
Geez, it’s really hard question because I’m not a nightclub are so we’re talking.
We’re only talking.
Talking early 90s, I want to keep throwing back to groove is in the heart, but that was a couple of years later. You know, like.
Yeah, or not even necessarily a nightclub song, but you know how we link emotion and memory and OK, so when I first started learning to drive, I felt like every time I got in the car the mighty Mighty Bosstones the impression that I get.
Was on and so every time I hear that song now, I remember learning to drive.
Yeah, you know I don’t.
I said I don’t feel like I.
Have that kind of link I.
Mean I’ve got very strong links to music and lyrics and stuff growing up and.
Through my early adulthood and stuff like that, but you are saying that I can’t think of a similar kind of connection.
’cause the ones that I associate with those first times of going out drinking night clubbing when you hear this when the song comes on, you’re like this is my jam. Yeah, it’s like the vengaboys
And least two times.
Right actually black Box right on time was actually big when I was for exceeding the clubs.
OK, yeah, around the same vintage but slightly after.
Was every time I get excited this this was the one where I’d scream at the bar was pink.
Oh, get the party started and so then you don’t get. I’m coming up so you better get.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be perfect.
The party started.
Yeah, I remember.
That one don’t talk to that.
Yeah, absolute screamer of a nightclub.
Song, and that should hopefully shed some light on our difference in eras when we’re having this conversation.
So why I was actually mentioning that we were both drinking in the 90s, but I know, I know. But you know, like so, both of us.
Yeah, I just wanted to talk about our party songs, but yeah.
I think even though we don’t necessarily have the 90s drinking income and we’ve both got the binge drinking implement and.
Oh yeah, we got the 90s binge drinking culture in common.
Exactly so you know like well, I was drinking to suppress whatever I could whenever I needed to. We’ve ascertained that you also had the binge drinking relationships. So, what formed?
That for you.
Ah, you know. I think a lot of that was.
Probably peer pressure and expectation. I didn’t really have anything to drink until I turned 18, and even when I started uni I don’t know if it’s a Queensland thing.
If they let us into primary school earlier or whatnot, but when I first went to uni I was 17 and so I was at UNI for pretty much almost six months while everybody else.
Was out drinking. Oh, I was the 17-year-old who actually wasn’t drinking and being a little bit of a stickler for the rules at the time.
So, I was a good girl. I didn’t want to knock that. I didn’t want to rock that good.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Good girl and.
That’s a whole other episode in that.
But I didn’t want to, didn’t want to rock that good girl image, so I actually didn’t drink anything more than just disappear or there to just, you know, taste it until my 18th in which passion pop.
Just to be social.
You can taste it, just buy it. Just you just hear the word passion pop.
You can taste it right.
Oh yeah, it’s.
Passion pop I suppose is your I mean I did taste the passion pop when I went to university because you know that was the drink Dejour because it was affordable.
Shape yeah shape and sweet.
When I was entering that age, I suppose when I was 16, tropicana was being only getting drunk when I was about 16 at my brothers.
I think it was his 21st birthday party. It must have been, and I didn’t mean to get drunk, but I, you know, mom and dad.
Let me have a.
Couple of sips of.
Tropicana and Wolf. I was the life of the party.
I turned up to. I was invited to like a party. Once this is and this is in the early like I must have been under 21 or so when this was.
Happening and you had to bring a 6 pack or something and I bought a 6 pack of.
West Coast coolers because.
00:38:09 Speaker 2
I liked them and what was the thing I was consistently made fun of that with that group of friends.
I think for decades to come that my idea of a big drink was a West Coast cooler, which was pretty much almost no booze and just a.
Lot of sugar. Well, you know I’m.
Actually, known these days, if we go.
To a barbecue and we’re told to take drinks. I don’t drink normally, but if I do, I don’t want to drink anything too heavy, but I will get the vodka mud slides.
Because I love that sweetness, that’s what it’s about for me. It’s about the flavour and the sweetness for me.
I don’t like to drink hard liquor as such. I’d like to have a bit of flavour, a bit of bit of depth to it, you know, like a cocktail.
So those for me, those eras of I would call it binge drinking because I never had just one drink, right?
I never just came home from Uni and said Hey, I’m just going to have a passion pop tonight to relax just one.
Just gonna just gonna crack up in one bottle.
I’m just going to sit down in front of the TV and just have a passion pop and you know with Medina to.
Do you often ATC?
Hi honey, I’m home. It’s OK sweetie I got your passion pop ready. Here you go just the one.
Just the one actually.
I know how much you.
Like her cold where you?
Come in from work that was never what I did.
So, what I did was what I think almost everybody else that I went to union with at the time.
Did which was not just one passion pop, it was one bottle of passion pop followed by another bottle drunk in quick succession on a Saturday night before the club lockout time.
You know, like when you I think it was like if you weren’t in by 10:00 o’clock then you couldn’t get in or something like that and you had to get drunk beforehand because you were poor and drinking.
Passion pop and he couldn’t really buy much there.
Yeah, yeah exactly.
Yeah, it’s that.
Consuming a lot of alcohol in a very short amount of time.
Often gave a fight as well. I’m not playing drinking games; we’re playing drinking games so.
And the game was always such that you know involved maybe a tongue twister or something, or some kind of thing we had to keep a rhythm or something.
And if you dropped it, then you had to skull. So, the more you scold, obviously the more you dropped and then you had to scroll some more so they will read.
Obviously to make.
You drink more. I’d say that our drinking games involve vodka, jello shots except.
I don’t think that.
Happened until many years later ’cause we couldn’t afford vodka, passion pop jello shots. I’m quite the same thing.
The thing about this is that there’s a lot of great experiences that came out of this right. Like that you have some friends, you have some drinks.
It’s fun, you have that gamifying you go out for a dance. There’s a lot of positive memories that I still have of times that I went out with people in that situation, however.
However, there are also a lot of terrible memories that I have of that situation, because when you binge drink like that when it’s not just one glass of passion pop when you get home from work. It doesn’t take many glasses till you’ve lost all that inhibition.
So, you lose control. I think of a few things. You lose control of your inside voice, your ability to regulate the words that are coming out of your mouth. I call that Louise uncensored.
I’ve seen Louise uncensored.
Where Louise Uncensored thinks she’s saying something quietly to somebody, and she’s actually screaming exactly what she thinks of people to other people where they can hear it.
And suddenly people are shuffling away.
And then the next day at work I’m having to justify why did or didn’t say that thing about somebody.
That’s a story for another time. Well, maybe later in the episode. The other thing that I think happens is, besides OK, the next day you feel like **** right? The absolute next day, 100% whatever.
Oh, totally yeah.
You were drinking the night before. If you binge drink, you feel like shed.
I always felt terrible after that as well, not just because I felt like **** but felt like that I was wasting the day.
The other thing that used to happen, which
Is probably how this ties more into negative mental health for me is because that alcohol would cause that sort of lack of control.
It didn’t just affect, you know inside voice. It also affected my ability to control my own thoughts. And so, what would be at the start of the night? The best night ever we’re going out for a drink.
The dance could very easily flip if someone said something, or if I thought something or if it got to 3:00 AM drags and nobody had hit.
On me could and.
Did flip to a breakdown. I suppose a drunk and I can’t control my emotions and I can’t intellectually reason with myself and nobody else can intellectually reason with me because my brain is poisoned.
A breakdown on a on a park bench about my life. Having a breakdown in the gutter about something.
It is a horrible place to be.
I’m guessing this wasn’t a one off. You know, like this is something that I’m assuming happened over a prolonged period many times.
So, did you have a sense that the alcohol might have had something to do with it, or there’s something like under the way you use alcohol? Had something to do with it?
I think not for a long time. The fact that everybody used alcohol and when I describe having you know those flip moments where you go from best night to crying in the gutter.
I wasn’t the only one that had that happen. You know plenty of times I’d be out with a friend.
It’s 3:00 AM. We’re on the walk home and then you know she sits down in a park and starts crying about her life so.
Yeah, the owner of the kebab shop is probably the next best counsellor after the barman.
The kebab shop is yeah, kebab shop has seen it all.
And I did say Bowman and I’m sorry, but we are talking in 90s, the barkeep.
Barton that doesn’t care ’cause they can’t hear; they just keep serving you the drinks.
That’s where they just smile or take your money.
Just take your money. We’ve discussed in the podcast before my long-term struggles with depression and anxiety and how I didn’t really become aware of my patterns around that. Until I suppose. Recently yeah, Young Louise was not nowhere near self-actualized enough.
See that alcohol was a contributing factor not to causing the depression and anxiety, but to exacerbating it. So, I think the removal of inhibitions through the alcohol itself meant that my mind didn’t have that ability that I had been having to compartmentalize and.
And almost like detach dissociate from.
Those feelings of you know depression, anxiety that I was experiencing in my life because.
’cause you’re just going out to have a bit of fun? Yeah, that’s what people that age. Do we go out and have?
A drink and.
Have a bit of fun and then suddenly for whatever reason, we’re having a really bad time of.
It and don’t know why.
Then you know next week when your friend says, hey, let’s go out again. Yeah, you remember 3:00 AM in the gutter. But you also remember it was a good time and it’s even my boring friends.
This is a terrible way of putting it high boring friends.
Thankful its name.
Even my what you would call boring friends my book.
Firm, you know, conservative. I have a friend who is now an archivist and hope she doesn’t listen to me call or a boring friend, but OK, she’s not boring, but I mean when you think, archivist, you don’t think party animal.
But even my air quotes boring friends drank every weekend. So, who was there to spend time with?
That wasn’t a part of that.
Culture do you know?
What I mean and?
The world has changed since the 90s. Two, you know, like I was meeting new friends on ICQ back then.
Was the only way to meet people outside your immediate sphere? You know, like you made friends with?
The people who are around.
There were around you because you didn’t have access to anybody else, but now you could find someone that had a shared interest.
You could find it through a meet up group. You could find out through a discord. You could find them anywhere else but.
I see Q was like.
That was the thing that was the place to be. I actually started showing the people on IRC which was to precursor to ICQ. So, on the Internet relay chat exactly.
Don’t think that.
I wasn’t in the computer lab until 5:00 AM thinking where the hell that I’m gone.
I love I love that any listeners of hours that are under the age of No 40 I’m not going to know what that sound.
Not gonna get it now.
Mean is not.
That’s an insult for your parents’ guys that is.
00:46:39 Speaker 2
So, you guys.
Oh, so that early binge drinking culture. I think where I picked up those habits.
Definitely based around that. So, when Marie talks about 18 years for someone to get help, imagine if I had continued with that culture.
I didn’t continue with that binge drinking culture. That was something that I stopped doing on my own, but I could see how you could get to because that would have been close to 18 years ago for me. You could get to be, you know, 40 now and then go, oh.
That’s where I picked up all these ******* bad.
Habits this idea that you’ve got a drink to have.
Fun, so what was it that made you stop?
Using alcohol like that.
I used to joke.
That I don’t drink to drink. I drink to get drunk and I wanna say like I would never consider myself at all anywhere near the scope of alcoholic I mean yeah at uni and those first few years of what I’d call.
Life. Absolutely every weekend there was drinking involved.
But you weren’t coming home every day. Having a passion pop.
No, and I didn’t I actually. I’ve never been someone who gets to the end of the day and has a stressful day and has a passion Popeye.
Hasn’t visited from steam.
I understand why people do that. It never it was something that I was interested in. It was we drink to get drunk.
What’s the point of it? If it’s not to get drunk, what’s the point of just having one glass of wine or one glass of passion but we drink to get drunk?
00:47:49 Speaker 2
Well, you know.
The pretext for a lot of New Year’s events pre COVID, isn’t it? You go out, you get drunk, you have a good time and then and then you don’t have a good time.
So, I think when I started working, believe it or not, after I left uni and I got my first job in Canberra, I think that I drank more in Canberra in that first job than I ever did at UNI.
So maybe it was because I had disposable income and I no longer had to drink the passion pop, which was great because at some point in uni, after a very large
Right, I had severely thrown up on the passion pop and I **** you not I could not touch anything. Passion flavoured for about a decade.
You know, up until that point I was going to say to you we should get a sponsorship from passion Pop, but I think you just killed it.
Even now, someone says hey, would you like a passion flavoured thing and my stomach kind of goes.
Yeah, I’m a bit like that with local mirror.
I’m like that also like that with garlic bread. After I had the great the great gastro of 2019.
No garlic bread is such a shame, ’cause I.
Really used to love garlic bread.
So, when you left uni and that peer pressure wasn’t there anymore, did the binge drinking stuff.
Ah no. So, when I was at uni here was to connect with people. That was the only social way to do it.
When I was in places like Canberra, used to work shift work, I’d work, you know, 10 days on, four days off and my social circle was really limited to the people that I worked with and.
It was a.
Real workplace culture.
Thing to go out together and bond and have a lot to drink though. Those times that I was in Canberra, and I was going out and binge drinking and then still crying in the gutter is just in crying in the Canberra gutter instead of the Walker gather.
Yeah, you didn’t have a major SHG. You had some other projects useful work instead.
They also coincided with some of the more depressed times in my life, because yeah, if we go back to episode, if you want to go back to episode three, there was that moment where I was, you know, sitting on the floor of the shower with the suicidal ideations. I think when I was drinking in that time period and binge drinking.
When my mind was flipping so easily, it was coming up to the surface very quickly and very easily. How I was really feeling about myself in my life when I drank, so it might seem like a good idea and to belong to that workplace culture to go along to these things and to drink. Especially because the first part of it is fun, but that underlying sense.
Of depression and worthlessness. Very quickly and easily would come about.
So is at the moment he decided to stop.
Binge drinking not.
You would think that I’d learned by then that was the moment that I slowed down. So instead of doing it every weekend, every time I had a weekend, I started working on other things.
I started working on, you know I want to get into radio and doing other things with my time. So, it wasn’t happening as often, but I still had that mentality.
Of we drink to get drunk. The differences it wasn’t happening every week and I continued to carry that mentality.
UM, the moment where I said no more binge drinking is unfortunately not as young. Louise, it’s really Louise of only like the last 8.
Years I reckon we were at a work party. It was an after party for the Commercial Radio Awards and I was already really drunk then someone.
I have seen you legally.
Drunk so I can.
Picture this, but yeah.
And then someone said last drinks bars closing so you can stay here because we’d paid for the venue.
You can stay here, but we’re not allowed to serve after this time, and so someone bought a bottle of vodka over the table.
The pouring bottle.
That this bar staff is supposed to have with a little nozzle on the top right.
So, we could all pull our own drinks. Yeah, Louise didn’t pour her own drink. Louise poured the bottle of vodka.
Yeah, yeah uh-huh.
Down her throat.
Oh my God, what?
A nice culled. Oh, I think 1/3 of a bottle of vodka.
And I put it down after everyone was cheering I, I think I don’t know. I mean, I’ve got no. I’ve got no perception of time because they essentially poison.
To myself, I said that was a mistake and I walked over to the toilet, and I started hurling so bad that one of the new staff he’d been working for us for a little while. He’s like grab my phone and.
Called my partner at the.
Welcome, I’m Louise.
And this is how we got to know me. Caught grab my phone, call my partner got into, picked me up and he walked me down votes anyway.
I mean, we’re laughing.
But that’s really quite as serious.
All seen look.
100%. Never do that. OK, the moment that I said never again was when the next morning I woke up surrounded by a couple of cheeseburgers that I had made him drive team with the drive through and get one.
As in my hand half eaten, I woke up.
In a bit of cheeseburger wrappers.
And when I opened my eyes, I couldn’t see right. Everything had a white film over it, and I looked around and I got up and I was really woozy, and that white film didn’t go away. I was genuinely concerned at that point that I might have poisoned myself.
It took me about; I think it was two or three days before my eyesight went back to normal. I was obviously vomiting.
The next few days and that was that was the moment where I don’t think so.
Like no, no more. I don’t want to do this anymore.
Yeah, Meridian is talking as well about how you know alcohol is very commonly used as the social lubricant. I mean yeah, we go out and have a bit of fun, but it does kind of go over that edge.
Like you know, when I was in uni I drank so much one night that I passed out and they shaved off one of my eyebrows. I had no idea they took stuff out of my room.
Thankfully, they were also responsible after having their fun with me, and they made sure that I didn’t choke, but that could have ended. You know, with me dead to be honest, because I could have actually asphyxiated.
I mean our part and he does want to laugh at the eyebrow thing, but.
It was pretty funny at the time. It was embarrassing for me, but my 3-year-old niece at the time.
Thought it was amazingly funny.
Yeah, I mean and that part of me that doesn’t want to.
Laugh at that also.
Remembers feeling like so drunk myself that.
This is taken a turn, but.
That I wouldn’t have consented to if I was sober.
So, the fact that you are passed out and to the point where someone can shave your eyebrows off is a place where you lose all your own control. Any anybody could have done anything to you, and in some of those drinking moments.
It’s like this is OK, like a horrible turn for the conversation here. This is not where I thought it was going, but one night I was so drunk and hadn’t.
That I only had sex with somebody because I thought they would rape me if I didn’t.
And I thought.
That was a better option than being raped is half consenting to it?
That’s how the conversation goes.
And it was because he was in that vulnerable state of being drunk. Yeah, which you know, is a.
Vulnerable state, I’m drunk. I haven’t got any control. I haven’t. I’m isolated. I don’t want the situation.
But Sord escalating.
And thought that that was the lesser of two evils.
Yeah, because I could just get it done and get it over with quicker. If I did that instead, there’s two things to obviously that admission is that one. It shouldn’t matter what state someone is in.
That’s really box. Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely it shouldn’t. No.
You don’t go ****** people.
No, yeah. So, it I mean.
It shouldn’t matter.
And if someone looks like they are so drunk that they couldn’t actually give informed consent, then it’s not consent and also the other thing is, you know.
I’m not saying that I deserved that situation, or anybody deserves that situation. If they’re drinking, and so the onus needs to be on you not to drink so it doesn’t happen.
I just mean that poor binge drinking choices that can lead to you feeling out of control and powerless.
Yeah, OK, so here’s another example that doesn’t involve sexual exploitation or rate so.
Sexually grey area and sexual assault.
Yeah, so to furnish the example.
In a different way that.
That you know isn’t about sex.
There was one night where I got drunk with some friends at a house party.
And we got.
Very drunk and we had driven to the party, and it was time to go home, and I hopped in the car.
With a drunk driver.
And yeah, I never drive drunk, and I shouldn’t have looked into that car and thank God the ditch we rolled into.
Wasn’t stupid because that could have again ended up in very serious injury or death, but we ended up taking a curve too quickly and we had to crawl out of the car because it had rolled down into a ditch.
When we drink too much when we drink to excess, whether we’re having fun at the time or not, there is that element of.
What makes us keep doing that? If we know that we’re going to lose control, what makes us keep doing that so that we, you know, we keep going back for more and you know, is there a wake-up point at some point that says gotta stop?
I don’t want to get out of control again. I haven’t stopped drinking permanently. I just hardly ever drink now.
I started from them saying instead of we only drink to get drunk. I started saying I only have a drink if I’m already in a good mood.
Yeah, that’s a big difference. I actually started the same. You know, I really kind of cut off drinking.
When my mom died because I knew that if I was going to have go out and have a drink with people, I would be that emotional mess because I already was and I made a pretty firm choice.
Then I’ve stuck to it ever since that if I feel happy enough, I’ll have a drink, and even then, I might not even want one, and that’s OK, but I’ve become more accustomed to not having your drink than actually.
Going out and then bowling into yeah.
Yeah, do you have a drinking animate?
That kind of stuff, because that.
Doesn’t work for me anymore.
I think once I started working on my mental health for real once I started to realise my long-term traits of depressive episodes anxiety once I started.
To cut through the platitudes and get to the core of living authentically.
Uhm, I didn’t.
Need to drink, it’s actually detrimental to my health.
Not only does it now would it affect the medication that I take, which makes me.
Feel better, but there was.
There’s been more.
Negative things that have come from it than positive.
You know, sadly, I think that alcohol.
Being a lot of the reason for unconsensual sex is going to.
Be so relatable.
Isn’t it that it’s ******* awful? Isn’t it that?
Well, because people will get drunk, and they get horni and bigger walls. It’s very ******* corn term as well.
You know, like people will get so ***** they’ll just accept a FCK, and I think that works both ways.
You know, like people will regret cracking onto someone because that’s where the bigger wolf things really have. It’s like.
Genesis, but really like a girl with beer goggles in this case, doesn’t feel like she can actually say no.
Yeah, I don’t know if I’d call that beer goggles, but.
No, I know it’s clumsy, but you know what I’m saying though? Like it’s, it’s that lack of lack of discretion that that comes about because you drunk the lack of control. The lack of being able to.
I think you know I I’m yeah.
That that that feeling of.
Yeah, van like it’s the negative of vulnerability. It’s yeah, it’s a real grey area because if two people are affected by alcohol and one person doesn’t in that situation he was pushing for sex and you know, kissing me and pinning me and that kind of stuff and.
It’s complete exposure basically.
It’s like I didn’t. I didn’t explicitly say no.
You know what’s funny? He’s the way he’s his alcohol there is. He’s actually brought out a part of his personality that he probably wouldn’t do either. But let me finish the thought here ’cause it’s not excusing his behaviour.
Like he’s exposing who he really is by doing that when he’s drunk, because if he’s doing it when he’s drunk, he’s thought about doing it when he’s not drunk.
And I would back that up by saying that you are absolutely right, because when he was sober the next day, he kept pressuring me after that to see him again, and I said, no, I don’t ever want to speak to you again. And he was married and cheated on his wife.
There you go.
So, there you go and the only way I got him to leave me alone was I said if you.
Don’t leave me alone. I will tell your wife what you did.
Yeah, and then of course you.
Would have been the pitch.
And you know, do you know what that was? Younger, Louise, but older Louise thinks that I probably would have ******* told her for a start, older Louise would have punched him in the throat and told him to get the **** out of my house.
I will never been in that situation with him to begin with, and then I would have gone around and told his wife that she’s wasting her life with.
A ******* scumbag.
Yeah, if we were kind of taught younger to kind of lookout for ourselves in that way.
Rather than follow society’s norms.
Of have a drink get loose **********
Because you have to wonder, is it premeditated? Is that part of his thing, you know, bring around a bottle of wine ’cause he did say he was bringing food, but then he didn’t bring much in the way of food, so there wasn’t much food.
Just the wine, yeah?
Uhm, it’s that thing that you know. Do people say now? Is that if it’s not a clear yes, then it’s a no. And I didn’t say yes, but I didn’t say no. I thought no.
Who kind of tried to pull away and in the.
Which should have been enough for him to go OK, no.
And then in the end I just said just hurry up sooner. We could get it over with the.
Sooner he could leave.
Wonder how many other people who got raped stories?
Well, most of rape is about power.
I don’t know if I’d call mine a.
Rape story, I mean it. I suppose it is a rape story.
Yeah, it is. ’cause represents 6. It’s about control.
Because there’s that.
Yeah, but because both parties were drinking, I don’t know it’s.
Yeah, that’s apologist like the even drinking any drinking it’s no excuse for him.
To rape you, yeah, but if I didn’t outwardly say no.
It’s still not your fault.
Are you telling me that he didn’t know what he was doing by bringing a bottle of wine and then by the next morning when he was sober trying to continue it anyway?
Hmm we make apologies for ****** men.
I truly hate that that story is going to relate for people. I truly hate that other woman that are listening to this part of the conversation are gonna say yeah, that’s happened to me as well.
Well, you know like I got catfished once very early on in the Internet days. Yeah, I was doing the early version of online dating. We’d go on and you kind of have a chat to someone chair each other.
Keep decided to meet. He sent these photos. He looked really cute. I drove over and nothing. It was nothing like the photographs, but I did not feel confident enough to say, look no. I’m not going to go through with this, and I was pressured into having sex with him.
Same thing, isn’t it?
It’s exactly the same thing.
It’s a whole other episode I had sex.
It’s all about coercion ends.
Yeah, it’s coercion had sex with someone once because it was his birthday and he said he was alone for his birth.
Day and I said, come over, I’ll make you a steak that was all it was going to be. We were just friends.
But then when he was there, he was like it’s not fair that I don’t get some birthday sex and.
You didn’t get me a birthday present, so maybe I could have some birthday sex and then starts grabbing me.
Stocking what’s up?
Anyway, and I’m like, yeah, OK ’cause.
Oh God, this is going to sound. This is going to sound terrible.
’cause I did say come over for a steak, but I actually don’t cook very well. So, when he got there, he saw that I was struggling with it and I thought well, to be fair, asked him over for a steak and I didn’t cook it well and he had to cook it.
So maybe I should pay him back for it. So, I gave him some birthday sex and it was terrible for me and great.
For him it.
Was like a little ******* Energizer Bunny jackrabbit. It was just *******
Bangla being done.
There was no alcohol involved in that one that was just that was coercion via guilt.
That one by guilt, yeah.
It strikes me that as we’re having this conversation that that relationship that I formed with alcohol when I was just starting to drink as it being not just a rite of passage, but it being fun, it being a thing that you have to do, you have to be a part of it, even though along that journey.
It’s resulted in some terrible experiences for me that it’s still more overwhelmingly been, but I still have to take part in alcohol culture for those almost 18 years, you know.
And you know what, it is as well. It’s not just that, it’s just that it’s my responsibility to make sure that I get myself into those messages, because you know, how much were.
You are blaming yourself for being raped.
Yeah, well, you know, I don’t really think about it like it’s not like I mean I.
It’s that’s probably something to you know. Bring up with the therapist at some point, but it’s not like I certainly know people who have been raped in what I would call a real rape way.
And I don’t think that that’s even a good way to quantify a real rape versus a thinning rate, but.
No, but you know people who have.
Been violently raped?
Yeah, yeah, that’s the difference. Violently raped.
’cause the ranks not about sex. It’s about the coercion in the control.
Yeah, and so I think in my mind have minimized that experience and chalked it up.
Through a bad drinking experience.
But also, you did say specifically that you decided to get it over with because you felt that if he resisted, he would become quite aggressive.
Yeah, I did, and I did think that because he was being aggressive with how he was trying to push me to kiss him and stuff like that. And then like literally in that situation, I even vomited, and he kept going.
Then you know what I also did is. I turned that story into a joke, and I actually reframe that story into what I would call, you know, a great tale to retell at parties.
You see the net with Hannah Gatsby? Yeah, and how she you know. She says that she made all those jokes about situations and how she told the story in one way.
And it sounds like a joke. But then when she tells the rest of the story, you know they’re kind of being beaten up as sexually assaulted and it’s not a joke, she’s.
The packs of projects. Yeah.
Not the punch lines.
I’ve reframed that story into one that I told for ages which.
Which was he being so bad that I said just get it over with and through a dill doe at him etc. etc.
Because that was an entertaining story.
Yeah, and one in which that you weren’t actually as victim.
And one in which I had control. Yeah, so looking back on all of that and there’s some. There’s some interesting food for thought in there. That is, I suppose, a bit unexpectedly coming out of this episode certainly wasn’t planned for me to.
Say those things definitely. It definitely wasn’t in the run sheet. Was it to talk about coercive sex? No.
What is the waltz and all?
I think it falls somewhere under the bit that says, Louise explained.
It’s interesting in this conversation it does strike me that even with those stories which are now arguably awful, not even arguably just awful.
Uhm, it wasn’t until I had that experience where I thought I’d poisoned myself with alcohol that I actually gave it up.
It turns out that you know coercive sex wasn’t enough to rid myself of that idea of I have to.
Be a part of.
So, after all that, you know it kind of would look on the surface like you just kind of went cold Turkey at one point that you just decided to give up the bottle.
Land and start living differently and.
I think yeah, it’s.
Pretty rare that it’s the case that someone can just go cold Turkey.
You know whatever substance it is they’re addicted to, whether it’s alcohol or something. Otherwise, you know cigarettes, hard drugs. It’s pretty rare for someone to just be.
Able to switch that off.
Yeah, and even though it’s much easier to make a change when we’re younger, apparently ’cause our brains aren’t formed yet and are fully formed yet and they’re more plastic. Murray did have some encouraging words for any of us in our middle or later use.
I think I’m identifying as a Hermione. Is it too late for me now if I don’t have a nice fresh teenage brain with all of its extra neurons and I’m setting my routine pathways?
Oh, my golly never too late never too late and you know it’s not as easy as when you’re 13 and 14 or 15 but we know that don’t we?
Know that with most things in life, it’s a lot easier to do it when you’re 1314 or 15, but it is absolutely never too late to turn it around and to.
Create positive coping mechanisms rather than relying on what?
Can be short term, you know it does make you feel better when you’ve had a drink, but the problem is that that quickly shifts from being a short term positive to a long term, not positive.
Hey there, just wanted to take a little breather from today’s episode and say thank you so much for listening to us. Make sure you never miss an episode by hitting the follow button on your podcast.
App now and.
While you’re there, we’d love it if you left us a review. It really does help to boost us so we can reach even more people.
You can also cheque out our Patreon page to see how you can access even more content at patreon.com/re frame of mind and remember to tell everyone you know about us, because the more people we get talking about mental.
Health the more supported will all be.
So, we talked about my relationship with alcohol, and we’ve talked about your relationship with smoking, and we’re talking about addiction and being addicted to a substance like alcohol or nicotine. I actually don’t think.
Hopefully this is not one of those things where I’m gonna need an intervention. I actually don’t think that I was addicted to alcohol. I don’t think that I was alcoholic in that way. I think I was addicted to.
The thought pattern that I needed to have alcohol to have a good time. I needed to do it to be a part of Australian culture.
Let’s face it, like we’re sold those messages, at what time I do are we have prime ministers that go out to the cricket and booze on.
And, you know, give that that thumbs up saying, yeah, do this have go out and?
Have fun, it’s.
It’s something that’s almost expected of us.
So, because I wasn’t going home every night and having a passion pop with my TV after a stressful day, I don’t think it was.
I have to have this thing which I think is different than it was for you with nicotine, because that very much is a physiological craving. So how did you actually?
They came out. I’m ready so that I definitely needed to. Because, you know, talk through these things that we’ve been talking through that does come that point where we know that, OK, this has to stop.
So, whether it’s that relationship you have with binge drinking, or whether it’s me with the nicotine. I knew that for my own health and even socially because smoking.
You know has become ill or less corn, but I wanted to quit. I wanted to give it up, so I then came across an app that was produced by Quit essay at the time and I remember years before when I had tried to quit.
And I had almost like, I guess, a paper version of something to keep you motivated along all the different points of giving up.
So, they would set out a calendar over the 1st 30 days of your Quit journey and say you know by this stage your lungs are doing this and by this stage you’re doing that and by this stage you’ve reduced that and something else which yeah.
That’s the sort of stuff that I can relate to kind of keep me motivated with the goals of it. So, the app from quid essay was quite a similar kind of tactic.
And so, I had the app, and it was sending little reminders of encouragement every now and then of yeah, you’ve got smoked food store on regulations, and even though it wasn’t a person doing that, it was enough of a reminder that I’ve gone this long without cigarettes and my body was repairing that. It was recovering and.
I guess you know there are a lot of studies out there. How much damage is permanent, and I shouldn’t have spoken in the 1st place and all that kind of stuff, but that’s not the point like when.
You’re giving up.
Smoking it’s hard. Yeah, when you give you up anything like that.
It’s bloody hard and any little sign of encouragement, not negative reinforcement, but encouragement for me anyway, is the thing that really helped me to then stop all together in 2012. It’s ten years in April. Since I’ve had a cigarette.
So as Maree points out technology does play a vital role in providing evidence-based information for people to access in a non-judgmental way.
I think that is where there is incredible power about making some of those first Connections through mediums like digital mediums.
So, I just really encourage people. There are evidence-based sources of information and it’s reaching out to those you know. Our websites core cracks in the eye. For example, for methamphetamine.
It’s reaching out for those and going to those trusted ever.
In space resources, because there is a lot of stigmas.
I wonder if that’s a risk. Sometimes it was falling into a.
Trap of toxic
Positivity where some people started being that for them works.
Do we really need to start looking more into what we’re saying and how we say it now that might be supporting us or.
Otherwise, I really love that term toxic positivity. I think that’s amazing.
We’ll get it printed on the page at wow.
I, I think let’s Chuck out toxic positivity in toxic negativity and let’s talk about greater compassion, so you know it’s being self-compassion and compassion to others. So, I do love that toxic positivity makes me want to throw it out but.
We found the subject of your next research paper.
01:14:21 Speaker 2
Kinda proud we introduced Marita. The concept of toxic positivity.
Yes, you really love that term, didn’t she?
She wanted to throw it out, but she loved the name for it.
Yeah look, I mean a common theme that started cropping up ever since we spoke to Nathan Parker way back in episode 6. Is that we need to look for one small thing.
Yeah, Nathan was our guest who wanted to be a fighter pilot since he was a kid, but then was in a bus accident where he had to have his hand amputated and then had to teach himself to, well, function and fly again every day by making small choices. That was his philosophy.
Yeah, so this is really the first time that together we heard this concept of. I suppose what other people might call chunking; you know so.
Where you look for something small that’s manageable that you can use to move towards the change that you want, and you know people do communicate that in different ways.
You know we hear it when we’re ready to hear it, I suppose is what it comes down to.
Through the advice I really loved from Marie was that concept of letting ourselves do social experiments to see how we feel when we’re trying a modified behaviour.
I’d like to think that eventually we can get to the sophisticated space where we can have work events, we don’t have to have alcohol associated with them, but you know, that’s a bit of a way off.
It’s both individuals, so having those skills and testing it yourself like can I go to the party and not drink and still have fun? And that’s a great behavioural experiment.
That you can run with yourself. Maybe you don’t have to do it every party, but you try it for one or two parties and test.
Did what we call behavioural experiment, which is go to the party see what your behaviour is like. Without the alcohol you might enjoy it.
I think you know we were just talking about that. Sometimes it can be more fun to do that.
And then it’s also being around peers and having the conversations with them that maybe this is what you’re going to choose to do, and in gathering strength, you’ll be surprised how many other peers.
Will also be thinking that that’s something that they might like to try. We have an experiment and see whether we can actually have fun without drinking.
Well, I can happily say that I’ve never felt like a cigarette, even with everything that’s happened.
In the last two years.
And I don’t drink to cope anymore. Now we take prescription medication.
Addicted no now I cope with things by looking at my feelings and talking to a psychologist.
And getting to the bottom.
Of what’s going on and.
I think that’s a lot healthier.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is possible to overcome addictions and even if it does involve more than a, you know you’ve just.
Got to do.
This, or you’ve got this. Just do it. That kind of product units you got this Boo.
Just do it. You can do it.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven’t, but you.
Know there’s always a lot that’s underneath that.
Band aid of a platitude.
So, when we initially reached out to Marie, we wanted to explore whether our behaviours are embedded in habits that can also be seen as addictive. You know, when we want to do something, but we can’t.
Parts and then we beat ourselves up on it for not being able to.
And Marie pointed us towards what she termed as the six big risk factors for adolescents.
We talk about them as the big six risk factors for poor health and adolescents.
So, alcohol, tobacco, sleep, sugar intake, physical activity and screen time and they are big six risk factors for.
Poor health in adolescents and you can switch it around knowing this information to increase healthy behaviours, not just decreased.
I’m really interested that you included sugar as a part of the Big Six. There. It’s something that we don’t often.
Think about as far as addiction goes.
The sugar and you know in terms of a risk factor for poor health and sugar intake, is absolutely one of the big.
Six, it’s really interesting to hear Sugar identified in.
One of the big six.
Yeah, I am a Big Sugar addict. I have been since I can ever remember. I’ve always had this sweet tooth as it’s nicely termed but there have been times that I’ve gone off it and then it takes just.
Little bit of something with a bit of.
Sugar and Andy are eating.
Sized block of.
Chocolate within 2 1/2 minutes again.
Can I tell you that when we put the run sheet for this episode together, I think it planted this idea and what this sugar idea in my head. Last night I actually had dreams. I was eating Eminem.
I think I was eating like a packet of M&M’s and then I don’t know if it was you or someone that could be you but didn’t look.
Like you in the dream saying, don’t do it.
Don’t eat the M&M‘s you’ll ruin your out of sugar or whatever you said, and I just kept getting another packet of M&M.
‘s So I mean.
That’s how I felt in my dream because I don’t have refined sugar now it is I, I wanna say because the first thing that people think when I say something like I don’t eat refined sugar is oh you wanna lose weight?
No, not at all. I’m happy being me. I’m happy being fat. I’m all good for that. I am.
a plus size queen and proud of it. I don’t eat sugar because I have chronic pain and sugar leads to inflammation. That’s worse. Refined sugar that leads to inflammation. That’s worse.
And I’m got sick of having chronic pain and so much like any other lots of other things I’ve tried in my life, like going gluten free and not eating dairy. Cutting out sugar was a part of that.
How’s the chronic pain to gave it up?
Still there better. It’s not as bad, not gone, just not as bad so earlier in the episode I said I didn’t think I was addicted to alcohol; it was just I was addicted to the thoughts and the culture.
100% addicted to sugar. I was 100% addicted to sugar. Giving up sugar refined sugar. I will say refined sugar because I do still have.
Things like coconut sugar, Maple syrup, anything.
That is kind of a slower burning lower GI thing, and that’s to do with the way that cane sugar spikes in your blood. Or Anne Rice sugar actually is.
I’m not a scientist and this is also not a dietary podcast, so you might need actual to consult actual information here, yeah?
Dietary advice will add that to the disclaimer at this time.
Talk to an.
Actual dietitian about this. But like OK. One of the vegan sugars that is often in things is rice sugar, but rice sugar is really high GI, so it acts very similar to cane sugar. That is important information.
For this for this.
Part of the conversation in my in my sugar discussion.
But giving up refined sugar or high GI sugars exceptionally hard because my body was definitely craving them.
Because your pleasure receptors are programmed to expect them into want them in slaving it.
My little dopamine hits yeah, because it does it. It causes that not a nutritionist again, but it does cause.
That flood you get all those good feeling chemicals and your brain and body associate’s. I eat this and it causes that.
But it doesn’t seem to associate. I eat this. It causes that and then 10 minutes later because it’s peaked in GI and its major blood sugar peak, it also causes it to drop.
Significantly after as well, and causes that crash, you know, the afternoon crash, the sugar crash where you need some more sugar to boost you back up. I feel like I’m starting to sound like I’m.
Let’s make Stanton.
Like I’m about to sell everybody on a, uh, uh, raw paleo diet or something like that like I’m about, I’m about to push some kind of course on somebody and I swear I’m.
Not yes, like I’m about to advocate for a detox tea or some **** like that. But no, I I’m not I but OK.
Some kind of crushed diet?
Sugar is in almost every processed food that we eat. It is super hard to kick an addiction to sugar because it’s not just about.
I won’t just have a chocolate bar, it’s also about I’ve gotta rearrange my lifestyle so that I don’t even have that loaf of bread because that particular loaf of.
Bread has sugar in it.
Remember that time when that large hamburger chain was told they couldn’t actually call their buns bread rolls because they had too much sugar and were there for confectionery?
Yes, things like.
That we end up in this position as people as a society because.
We’re time poor and we’re out of energy, and so it’s easy to go to the supermarket and pick up something that’s prepared and ready to go.
Completely valid because we don’t have the time or the energy, but then the thing that’s in that food, you know it might have a lot of sugar in it, which makes it taste great.
But then that spikes the blood sugar and then it crashes later and then we don’t have the energy because we’ve experienced.
A crash, you know, GI in our blood sugar and then we have something else to compensate for the crash.
And then we go up for a bit and then we crash you. It’s like it’s like the coffee effect. I think you know you start off your morning with that coffee and you get the caffeine rush.
And then once it’s done, boom.
You feel like a zombie.
Walking and you need another one.
Yeah, I mean I, I guess you know what you’re saying. There really is that like any of these things, even with sugar, it’s not just a simple case of saying cut it out, don’t do it because there’s a lot of things you need to keep your eye on to help you, not do it.
Yeah, there’s all the kind of the infrastructure like we don’t exist in a vacuum and do.
We don’t know as much as we would like to. Sometimes we don’t.
And we say this about mental health all the time, but.
’cause you know the world around us effects our mental health and we need to acknowledge, you know, we don’t exist in a vacuum and work the best way we can in the world that we live in.
And the same thing goes for things like physical health or physical addiction. I’m sure that if we were Gwyneth Paltrow and we could afford our own personal chefs.
To follow us around.
And make our organic free range vegan salads. Then we would all probably be a lot healthier.
01:24:13 Speaker 2
Yeah, but you.
Know I look at some of those diets and they have treats in there based on the ingredients that are inverted, commas safe, and they’re just replicating those old things like.
Keto friendly Bounty, sure I will, thank you.
I don’t know. I think that there’s a whole lot of reprogramming and retraining with the pallet that needs to go on there as well, because I don’t want to be one of those people that.
Say should never have a.
Bounty bar because I love counties.
Ours, but I think.
Are you becoming a nutritionist like I was? Yeah.
I think so, but I think you know, like if we’re going to look at changing our eating habits, I think those sorts of replacement ones or substitutes. If you want to go down that vegan pathway with the Gwyneth Paltrow type chef.
I think those replacements are a good stepping stone to finding your way to that new way of eating, but to me when I reach for sugar, there’s something else behind it.
Similarly with the cigarettes, when I want.
A chocolate bar.
It’s because I’m feeling stressed about something or it’s really because I really feel like a good bit of chocolate because I can.
It compounds chocolate and get that same feeling of satisfaction. You know I’ve been known to raid the pantry here for cooking chocolate because we haven’t had any other chocolate.
Hours so it’s something else. It’s not the chocolate, it’s something else. So, by replacing sweet for a different type of sweet I suppose.
Yeah, from a mental health point of view if we’re ’cause that’s what we’re talking about here. In this podcast, we’re talking about the things we do because of how we’re feeling.
So, for me, like I went out and bought a bunch of chocolate.
Nice chocolate last night ’cause you know, it’s nice to have some nice chocolate. I had exactly the short-term benefit that is amazing ’cause it tastes so now.
Always good to treat yourself.
The longer-term benefit of that last night was that I was awake for three or four hours with the worst heartburn because that particular chocolate does give me heartburn, and I love it so much.
So, you know when really talks about trading off the short-term benefits to the long-term impacts, then when it comes to chocolate, I’m really, really bad at that.
I used to be bad at it.
With cigarettes, but I’m bad at it with sugar still.
Yeah, well, I mean if we’re lacking something in our mental.
Health, I think.
Whether it’s, I suppose, an emotional thing like that whole idea where we eat our feelings.
And I, I think there’s something to be said for that, because I would certainly and still do.
To reach for a big old plate of potatoes with butter, if I’m feeling empty inside, emotionally, that’s my eating of feelings.
You know it’s a whole other conversation to talk about potatoes and carbohydrates, converting to sugar, which again not a nutritionist, but it’s similar. It’s a similar process and I think, yeah.
So, there’s that part of eating your feelings. A lot of that messaging comes through media and advertising that we’ve grown up with, you know.
Or like think about, it’s not the only example, but what about Bridget Jones’s diary? When we see her at a point where she’s depressed, she’s curing that depression by drinking and smoking and eating sugar.
And you know, all those kinds of things. So, part of it we pick up is that. But I think the other part of it is that physiological thing with those elements.
Of sugar if we’re deficient in dopamine or other, feel-good chemicals.
Then our body does crave it and says you’re lacking in dopamine. Go have a bounty.
Also, I remember like food is another one of those things that we are trained to use for comfort or to make things better.
You know, like alcohol is, I have a drink. Might you be fine? My first day of kindergarten. I vividly.
Remember, I was so upset.
Oh my God.
I had separation anxiety from mum, ’cause I hadn’t gone to preschool or anything like that.
So, it was a massive culture shock. The first child I was one of those.
Kids that cried and.
I remember luckily.
Thankfully, you know one of my very good friends was in.
My kind of car.
In class and I remember was sitting on the mat.
And I was.
Crying I was trying hard not to cry because boys don’t cry but I was upset, and she reached over.
He said Andrew and he look have these biscuits that your mom made for little lunch. They’ll make you feel better.
And so, through my tears I eat the biscuits and I didn’t feel better. But now I want to feel better write something.
Did I tell you? Did I tell you about my doc, my doc daffy that went to go live on a farm?
Yeah, I have heard the daffy story, but for the benefit of our listeners.
I was must have been.
I remember moving house in between year and three and four and it was at the 1st House we lived in, so I was under year 3 whatever those ages and I had a duck called Daffy and it’s this beautiful big white duck.
Might have been a gander. Uh, uh Drake, that’s the one because it got a little bit aggressive sometimes and would nip my ankles.
Maybe a drink?
Might have to like to jump up on top of the swing set to get away from it.
And so, I had a love hate relationship with Daffy the duck. I did love the duck. I didn’t love my ankles being bitten. I’m wondering I came home from school mum.
Said look, we’ve had to you know, we’ve taken Daffy, definite it somewhere else to live that he had more space.
He nips and he bites and things like that. So, we’ve we’ve taken him to go live on a farm.
And I was inconsolable. Sad because I didn’t want Daffy to go away, just ’cause.
He nipped me I.
No, and so to ease my pain they gave me a can of coke which I’m not calling up bad parenting, but like back then coke was. I’m in we. We weren’t a coke drinking family. We were an AC Kohler drinking family.
01:29:38 Speaker 7
We couldn’t afford.
So, folkways, the premium.
Coke we were Coke was the premium and I.
I remember, you know, getting a couple of cans of coke then and you know here you go. Have this to feel better and it did.
It made me feel better ’cause I got a thing that I hardly ever was allowed to have. Like the premium thing and so it’s not that it took the grief about Daffy.
Going to live on the farm away, but much like you, your story with the cookies how?
One of those.
Formative experiences of here you go, we eat sweets to feel better. Yeah, contribute to things.
Yeah, and yes. I was about 26 at the Royal Easter Show when mom called while I was there.
She said, what are you doing? I said I’m at the Easter show just looking at the Ducks and she said, oh you mean like Daffy? I said yeah, my duck who went to go live on a farm and she went.
Daffy died, we just told you that.
Oh, I didn’t know.
Daddy bought the farm.
It was 26 I.
01:30:44 Speaker 7
Oh well, at least you didn’t.
Say we ate daddy for dinner that.
Night that would have.
Been a whole another story.
Oh, that guilt. I carried that DEFI had to leave because he nipped my ankles and he died, and he never went to go live on a farm.
Hello sugar addiction.
Another unexpectedly sad story to come out of today’s episode.
But yeah, OK, so we do food as comfort. We are trying to fix our mental health with things that aren’t actually looking at our mental health. It’s like we’re doing the best that we can as people to compensate for how we feel.
Deal, but often we’re not being self-aware enough to recognize that how we feel has more going on than what we think.
Yeah, and so you know, like when I’m coming back to a mental health context, you know we try to change things you know, like earlier we said about Nathan Parker looking for one small thing that can make a difference.
We we try to make small changes that we could sustain. So, we’ve talked. I don’t know whether in a previous episode and we’ve certainly talked between you and I about.
How I approached the laundry in how OK? Well, yes.
Yes, we have a Kimberly Norris episode for reference. If anyone wants to go.
01:31:59 Speaker 5
There we go, so you know, like there’s a massive pile there, but it’s just going to keep growing if I don’t at least do one.
So, I put in a small load and then I walk away and do something else that I want to do.
But having taken that small step to do that, one small load of washing and that sustainable change for me, because I can think of that as a small task then.
Not as this big mountain of laundry, so that then you know, it helps me to reprogram the way all good things and to make those kinds of small adjustments to help you get off my own back about things in other ways.
Yeah, I think that to reprogram a behaviour that we’re doing to use that word.
The goal or the payoff has to be better than what we’re getting, so we have to find a way to for you.
I suppose the if you can keep it in your mind that that feeling of being on top of your laundry is better than that feeling of always being overwhelmed by it. It can help you make that change because.
That pay off in that feeling is better.
Yeah, the payoff for me is that I haven’t got people complaining to me. They haven’t got something fresh to where I would much rather people have.
You haven’t got people.
How many people do you live with Andy?
I’ve got person that’s just myself and my partner and the two cats. The Cats admittedly don’t have much to say about it, but that where pets recently with the pants in the family.
They don’t wear pants.
So, it’s all those things about not having to have those conversations about where’s this? Or where’s that like? It’s done, it’s. It’s not even an issue because I work from home.
As well, you know. So, for me to be able to incorporate.
Pieces of the housework into my day as well is really useful because it means that before we log on and do things over morning, I can put a load of washing through and it’s fine.
It’s such a small part of my day overall, but it is a massive contribution to, you know what could potentially be an argument down the track because the shirts.
Unavailable, or me having to contend with a massive pile of laundry and spend a day doing it or attending to it rather than.
Just half outta here or there.
And that sugar thing for me in terms of kicking sugar is an addiction because there is that physiological sign of it.
When I first said no, I’m going to stop having refined sugar. It was about four weeks before I stopped having the overwhelming cravings to have it. I couldn’t go near a supermarket and walk anywhere near a confectionery aisle because my body.
Was just screaming at me.
Hate the shock.
Eat the sugar just one bit of sugar. It’s not going to hurt just one bit of sugar because.
You just get a small chocolate bar.
Exactly, it’s just a little bit, just have.
A little bit.
Just one more, just one more piece.
Its physiological, like your body gets addicted to it.
It gets addicted to getting those hits of dopamine, et cetera, et cetera through it, and then it’s going. Why have you stopped giving me this thing that I need? And it’s like the thought about having sugar was clouding.
It was clouding my mind, it was like.
I’d just be sitting there.
Thinking I want something sweet, want something sweet? Need sugar? Need sugar? Need sugar? The only thing I think that made it sustainable for me is that even though my body was craving sugar, the inflammation in my joints was feeling better and so the goal there was the fact that I felt better is worth more.
Then that dopamine hit from the sugar. It’s worth ignoring those cravings. That voice in me that’s screaming out for a chocolate bar.
Because my wrists don’t hurt as more my ankles don’t hurt as much you.
Know I’m not waking up with headaches anymore because, you know, sugar dehydrates you, so I think that that reward to overcome to overcome an addiction, I think that that long term reward must be worth it.
Ah, it has to outweigh the short-term goal here. The short-term payoff.
For a change to be sustainable that long term impact that long term goal it has.
To be big, it is hard.
God and I don’t think we can do it alone if it wasn’t for you know friends. I have a friend who’s been helping me out in the last year by doing some cooking for me and sticking stuff in the freezer so that if I and constantly do run out of energy, I’ve got something there to go to.
To eat that is nutritious and easy. Instead of me getting Uber eats because I can’t control if there’s sugar in there.
So, I don’t think we can do it alone either.
Yeah, we need to make sure you put the right supports in place. Whatever they are. Definitely so you know that’s an example of making a sustainable change with the support of somebody in this case, which is also, you know.
And it’s not just about changing your mind.
About something because there.
Are other things inside that vacuum that we live in? Because we aren’t, even if they.
Kim Spoiler alert.
And even though we called the podcast re frame of mind definitely takes more than just changing your mind to make changes happen.
Yeah, these changes. They do require our ongoing attention and adaptation.
And sometimes that support can come in form of people around you, and sometimes the place to get support is online, like the Matilda Centre where Murray is from has a heap of really good resources available.
And we’ve popped those onto our website as well at reframeofmy.com dot AU. If you look under the episode memory featured in last time, which is episode 14.
You’d be able to access the heap of resources that Marie has kindly pointed us in the direction of.
01:37:13 Speaker 2
I’ll tell you what, we’ll also stick him in episode 15 two.
Hey, what up? Yeah, get the I teamwork.
At the ITC.
Hang on, let me go fetch the I team.
Hi hey hi.
Hey there, Louise.
Do you want you want me to go fetch the marketing team?
01:37:40 Speaker 2
Hey Shuar, Louise.
Hang on isn’t Andy part of the marketing team as well?
Oh yeah, hang on. I think you should go and fetch our head of writing.
Hey how you doing?
Anyway, so someone in our team will pop those resources or re frame of mind.com dot AU next time. On re frame of mind we’re going to bring you that interview with Tisha Rose that we promised you.
There are two person show.
At the end of last episode, because we actually had a development in her story that she let us know of last week. So, we.
Paused the promised interview. Dropped in this as sort of a bonus episode and we’ve recorded another segment to add into that to update her story for next episode.
What we do know about teacher roses that she’s been living with chronic illness in the form of multiple sclerosis for over 20 years and we had a chat tour about how she’s managed to mental health in the face of chronic illness.
01:38:38 Speaker 8
I’m no longer defined by Ms. It’s not on my mind all the time. I read a story about someone then yes, and I’m like Oh my God.
01:38:46 Speaker 8
That’s awful now thinking I’ve got that disease. That’s me. And then so it’s not there. You know, I’m not thinking about it all the time. If you were concerned about yourself or someone you know.
Please seek professional advice and support. You can contact beyond blue on one 300 double 24.
Or it beyondblue.org dot AU.
Or you can contact lifeline on 131114 or at lifeline.org dot AU.
We’d like to thank today’s guests for sharing their personal stories and insights and for more information on any of the subjects, guests or references used in this episode, please see our show notes or re frame of mind.com dot AU.
Re frame of mind is a welcome change media production.
And then I had an Ant.
Farm when I was a kid.
I find ants very interesting like.
They’re very busy.
01:39:42 Speaker 2
That they’re so smart, like the way they work as a.
Team, but have you seen them when they’ve gotten caught in a death spiral?
Because they follow the pheromones of the Ant in front. So, if the AT and front gets lost and they all end up following each other into a spiral until they all die of starvation.
That’s sad, sad for the air.
You know they come back next day that I’m sure ads get reincarnated the next day.
Yeah, probably a quick turnaround for an ant.
Number of times they get squashed.
OK, so like you just got swatted so back u go have another try.
And this is the kind of bonus content you can get on our Patreon.