Reframe of Mind

Episode 32: Who is Lisa Alexander AM?

Legendary Netball Coach

Andy Le Roy & Louise Poole, Reframe of Mind Hosts

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Louise & Andy on

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How’s your support network? Surrounding ourselves with the right people could mean the difference between feeling affirmed and inspired or feeling like you can’t do anything right. Imagine if a sports coach told their team they were trash when they needed to get more goals out of them instead of building them up with positive reinforcement. They probably wouldn’t be winning any comps any time soon.

 

A good team brings out the best in everyone and it doesn’t only apply to sport. A good team uses everyone’s strengths for the common good, and a good leader will recognise this and nurture those strengths. Someone who made this happen in a big way is Lisa Alexander, former Diamonds coach for Netball Australia. If you’re looking for an example of a healthy, supportive, high performance culture, look no further than the era in Australian netball that saw a Commonwealth Games victory, world championship wins and a stack of other victories over Lisa’s nine-year coaching stint.

 

There’s a reason why Lisa was named 2015 coach of the year, and in this episode, Andy and Louise chat with Lisa not only about why it’s so important to have good people around you, but what that looks like in the real world.

You can connect with Louise & Andy on Reframe of Mind’s social media directly below:

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Reframe of Mind contains discussion around mental health that may be disturbing to some listeners.

 

If you are concerned about yourself or someone you know, please seek professional individual advice. 

 

Some of the main crisis lines in Australia are listed on our Mental Health Crisis Resources page, including those that operate 24/7 like Beyond Blue and Lifeline.

Reframe of Mind contains discussion around mental health that may be disturbing to some listeners.

 

If you are concerned about yourself or someone you know, please seek professional individual advice. 

 

Some of the main crisis lines in Australia are listed on our Mental Health Crisis Resources page, including those that operate 24/7 like Beyond Blue and Lifeline.

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Guests this episode:

Former Australian Diamonds Head Coach, now head of high performance and assistant coach for the London Pulse

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Show Notes

Here’s some extra things you might not know about our guests, as well as some of the things mentioned during the episode.

Lisa Alexander AM

Lisa’s career has gone from strength to strength to strength in Australian Netball, rising from Victorian state representative player and member of the Australian senior wider squad, she became head coach of the Melbourne Phoenix in the Commonwealth Bank Trophy, and took the team to two title wins in 2002 and 2003.

 

After taking the Adelaide Thunderbirds to victory in the ANZ Championship title in 2009, Lisa was appointed as head coach of the Australia national netball team in 2011, where she coached the team to a string of victories including gold medal successes at the 2014 Commonwealth Games and 2015 Netball World Cup, as well as silver medals at the 2018 Commonwealth Games and 2019 Netball World Cup.

 

Following the end of her contract as  Diamonds coach in March 2020, Lisa has since now taken on the role of Head of High Performance and Assistant Coach for London Pulse.

Knowing what you’re working with is vital to getting the outcomes you want, as Lisa explains in this keynote address:

Connect with Lisa Alexander on her social media below:

Transcript

Transcript has been auto-generated and may contain errors.

Your support on our patreon would go towards being able to provide a human-edited transcript for accessibility.

 

 

00:00:00 

We acknowledge the Yuggera and Kaurna nations as traditional custodians of the land. 

00:00:04 

On which we. 

00:00:04 

Work, live and learn. 

00:00:06 

And they’re continuing connection with the land, waters and community. 

00:00:09 

We pay our respects to them and their elders, past and present. 

00:00:12 

All content related to this program is for general informational purposes only and contains stories and discussion around mental health that may be disturbing to some listeners. 

00:00:21 

If you’re concerned about yourself or someone you know, please seek professional and individual advice and support. 

00:00:27 

More details are contained. 

00:00:28 

In our show notes. 

00:00:30 

I think it was Rahma clean that wrote a piece once about me as a coach. 

00:00:34 

And he said what he admired about me was my ability to be an optimist in the face of adversity and to pick out the good parts and to pick out the parts that we could work on, and to be a possibility thinker. 

00:00:49 

That’s current performance director for London polls and former Australian diamonds coach Lisa Alexander. 

00:00:54 

And this is re frame of mind. 

00:00:57 

Where we deep? 

00:00:57 

Dive into discussions about mental health, joined by some of Australia’s leading lines to expand our understanding of. 

00:01:02 

The world and ourselves. 

00:01:04 

Because we don’t exist in a vacuum and the way we talk about mental health. 

00:01:07 

Shouldn’t either wear your hosts Louise Bull and Andy Leroy? 

00:01:11 

Now, last episode we spoke about some bigger Marshalls. 

00:01:15 

Speed big emotions. 

00:01:16 

Yeah, and you know, we’ve both had our own tantrums. 

00:01:19 

In between, but we’re. 

00:01:20 

OK, now, but we landed on the fact. 

00:01:20 

Between last episode and now. 

00:01:23 

But we landed on the fact that it. 

00:01:25 

Is good to surround ourselves with supportive people? 

00:01:28 

Like in a good sports team that’s there for each other. 

00:01:31 

Yeah, sometimes we need those supportive words or gestures that help us stay motivated. 

00:01:35 

Yeah, and every good team has a great college, don’t you think? So who better to speak to them? One of Australia’s most successful coaches? 

00:01:38 

I do. 

00:01:42 

She is Lisa. 

00:01:43 

Alexander, who rose to international success as coach of the Australian Diamonds netball team. 

00:01:48 

Such a successful woman on so many levels, and how good is it that we actually got to speak to her for this series? 

00:01:54 

Yeah, at the point at which we spoke to her actually was not long after she was replaced as diamonds coach following. 

00:02:00 

They lost in the World Cup to New Zealand in 2019. 

00:02:02 

Yeah, and happily she has moved on to bigger and better things since we spoke to her. 

00:02:06 

All of that aside, she was the most capped Australian netball coach of all time and. 

00:02:10 

Do you know what that means? 

00:02:11 

Now I don’t know. 

00:02:12 

What that’s sounds impressive. 

00:02:14 

I feel like it might. 

00:02:15 

Be a netball term you wrote down here for. 

00:02:17 

Me and I know that. 

00:02:19 

Lisa Alexander is impressive, but no, I do. 

00:02:20 

Not know what a CAP is? 

00:02:21 

Yeah, yeah, well. 

00:02:22 

I’m happy to explain well is an airball term, but it’s also used in other sports. 

00:02:25 

Basically, a player is capped when they play games, so if they’ve played 20 games, they’ve been kept 20 times. 

00:02:32 

Simple as that, basically. 

00:02:33 

So she’s the most capped Australian coach involved. 

00:02:35 

Which means that. 

00:02:36 

She’s coached the most Australian netball games, yeah, why can’t they just call it that? 

00:02:43 

You know, everyone needs their giant keep somebody in a job, you know, like someone has to update the Wikipedia and then put a link in Wikipedia to say that’s what that actually means, and on we go. 

00:02:52 

  1. Well, Lisa was also awarded Australian coach of the Year in 2015. I know what that one means.

00:02:57 

That recognizes her. 

00:02:58 

Professionalism, Dr an innovative approach to coaching. 

00:03:01 

Yeah, you know. 

00:03:02 

What something I didn’t know about Lisa when we actually started this interview was that she’s a secondary school teacher by profession and that she taught PE and maths. 

00:03:10 

Which did come in really handy when she was performing at the elite level, because for some reason sportswomen don’t attract the same level of pay as. 

00:03:18 

Sports men. 

00:03:19 

Rock the patriarchy. 

00:03:20 

The patriarchy. 

00:03:21 

So I guess out of necessity, Lisa, while performing at this elite level and coaching. 

00:03:25 

And another late levels he. 

00:03:27 

Still had another dog who? 

00:03:28 

Were off games. 

00:03:29 

Wins and the Lord like she’s. 

00:03:32 

She’s authoring student textbooks, she’s running a small business while also reaching the pinnacle of international high performance sport as the head coach of the number one ranked netball team in the world for nine years. 

00:03:44 

Yeah, let’s let that sink in for a minute. 

00:03:46 

Lisa drove a high performance culture around the Australian Diamonds netball team for a decade. 

00:03:53 

It’s her approach that’s actually the cornerstone. 

00:03:55 

Of her successful coaching career. 

00:03:57 

And you know, when we think of high performing athletes, we think of the metals in the awards. 

00:04:02 

Well, not the caps. 

00:04:03 

I wasn’t thinking of the cap. 

00:04:04 

Human thinking of the caps. 

00:04:06 

But Lisa achieved the ultimate goal of coaching the diamonds to victory in the Commonwealth Games and World Championships amongst a host of other covering medals. 

00:04:14 

But you know. 

00:04:14 

It’s not always about the medals and praise, Lisa commented. 

00:04:18 

How even for top level athletes, there can still be that. 

00:04:20 

Sense of struggle. 

00:04:22 

My experience with most of the top level athletes is not very many of them that have. 

00:04:29 

What would I? 

00:04:29 

How would I describe it? 

00:04:31 

I don’t want to make out as if they’re all, you know, complete anxiety drill. 

00:04:36 

And athletes that you know haven’t got normal lives because, I have to say in netball it seems that there’s a bit more balance, but most of the top level athletes have some sort of area of their life that they’re just not coping in and their sports actually hides them away from that. 

00:04:56 

And gives them great strengths, but it also when things don’t go well, that’s that’s the type of athlete that can really fall very, very suddenly away and you have to be very mindful of that. 

00:05:11 

Uhm. Sharni Layton’s and a case in point. 

00:05:15 

Where you know shines is always, how would I say it? 

00:05:19 

She would always live with heart on her, heart on her sleeve. 

00:05:23 

So she was the type of athlete that you knew would come into a fall at some stage and she did. 

00:05:30 

It was hard not to intervene, I have to say, but as a coach. 

00:05:35 

I you know, it was there’s an important line in the sand, but. 

00:05:39 

What I wanted to make sure of is that he was looked after, he had all the assistance and help that she needed to get better. 

00:05:47 

At that time. 

00:05:49 

But, but uh, part of that was driving her performance as well. 

00:05:53 

So it’s a real dichotomy in high performance sport is some of those. 

00:05:59 

Drivers for the great athletes are not necessarily great. 

00:06:04 

When things are not going well and life presents its challenges and things aren’t going well in sport, then they’ve got that time to think and that can be quite dangerous to some people. 

00:06:16 

But hopefully these days I think we’re being better at identifying athletes that need assistance earlier with their well. 

00:06:24 

Being in their mental health, many more of our high performance coaches are trained in this area, not necessarily trained. 

00:06:32 

Deal with it, but certainly to recognize it from a first aid point of view so that you can refer athletes on. 

00:06:40 

To get the help that they need. 

00:06:42 

It’s sort of like that idea of the the geniuses have always got a bit of a a kink in their armor. 

00:06:48 

So this leads us to wonder whether there’s actually too much focus on a prize is the only acceptable outcome. 

00:06:53 

Is sport, as Lisa recounted her experience of people wondering why such a successful coach as she was would be replaced. 

00:07:01 

People are asking, well, why have, why have I been replaced, as you know, the Australian Diamonds coach, because of my the winning record. 

00:07:08 

And all of those things in the program was improving, there’s no doubt about that. 

00:07:13 

But I just felt that there are many people within our organization. 

00:07:17 

Liberal Australia, particularly the players from the past that find not winning is just not acceptable and that’s OK. 

00:07:24 

I’m comfortable with that. 

00:07:26 

It’s a part of, I guess, the voice in netball. 

00:07:29 

That helps to make it. 

00:07:30 

As winning as possible I suppose, but then there are other things that we need to achieve and I think last year really highlighted some of those things, particularly in the First Nations people space and also connecting with the grassroots and the fans of netball. 

00:07:45 

So I think Netball Australia have, and particularly through their state of the game review have. 

00:07:50 

Learned a few things that it’s not just all about winning. 

00:07:53 

It has to be about their connection with the people that play the game and love the game and to grow the game in our country. 

00:08:00 

It’s not just all about the diamonds winning, it’s actually more about how they represent us. 

00:08:07 

On the world stage, actually, that was probably what always drove me in, in the role of being the head coach is to it. 

00:08:15 

It was not written down as such, but it was definitely a challenge that was put in front of me by the CEO at the time, Kate Palmer, that we needed to grow our sport, that we needed to become. 

00:08:27 

Part of the bigger sporting landscape. 

00:08:29 

Yep. In Australia it had nothing to do with women versus men. It was all about our sport taking. It’s what we consider to be our rightful place in the nation’s consciousness because of how popular it is in Australia. And so part of that, I guess, drive for myself was to do that. 

00:08:49 

And to create an environment that would do that as well as being and our mission at the time. And this was written down being the world’s best high performance program in the world. 

00:08:59 

At the time, yes, we were still winning, but were we behaving with the sort of character that would in really endeared us to the Australian public? 

00:09:09 

I thought not at the time, and so that’s part of the reason why when I came into the diamonds environment and observed for the first six months and saw that there were some real cracks in. 

00:09:20 

The culture and the behaviors of the top level athletes that things needed to change and I was fortunate because we got ahead of the curve because as it’s. 

00:09:30 

Show now in many of the sports that we’re looking at in the papers at the moment, those changes were never, never looked upon and never done. 

00:09:38 

And now they’re going to have to change things in a reactionary mode. 

00:09:42 

Whereas I think we were very proactive and we got ahead of the curve and I also I guess keyed into a really strong. 

00:09:50 

Message from the athletes at the time, they did not feel empowered. 

00:09:54 

They felt like they were being treated like cash. 

00:09:57 

Still at the time and they felt very much under stress with their balance between their life out of netball and their life in Nepal. 

00:10:05 

And I could not understand that because I would have definitely walked over broken glass to be an Australian player myself. 

00:10:14 

So it was very it was very sobering to hear. 

00:10:17 

The athletes say that they were really struggling and they didn’t even want to go to diamonds caps back when I first took over. 

00:10:24 

So that was the other great drive was to create an environment that the athletes really wanted to come and be a part of. 

00:10:32 

So it had to be much more than just about winning. 

00:10:36 

It had to be creating a real feeling amongst the group and we we developed our trademark with leading teams called Sisters in Arms and that became a real call to arms for our group around what it meant to be a diamond. 

00:10:55 

It was much more than just the performance. 

00:10:57 

Thought it was a bigger thing, it was a bigger purpose and you know, that was a it was a very interesting time. 

00:11:06 

There were many changes that took place, but we also managed at the same time to perform really well on the court because I’ve always, I guess, had this as part of my coaching, is it? 

00:11:18 

Looking after people 1st and their off court issues and acknowledging those is always going to lead to better performance on court. 

00:11:26 

I’ve never understood why you wouldn’t do both. 

00:11:29 

And it was really clear to me when I became part of the high Performance Coaching group at the top that many of the sports just didn’t even recognize that they thought it should be compartmentalized and should be separate, and that there was weakness. 

00:11:43 

If you looked after peoples well-being, well, I didn’t consider it to be weakness. I considered it to be strength. 

00:11:50 

But looking after people as people is a great strength and will lead to higher level performance any case. 

00:11:57 

This reminds me of one of the best leaders that I’ve ever had in my career today. 

00:12:00 

Right. 

00:12:01 

I was working for a government department. 

00:12:04 

There was a tendency in that realm to focus a lot on the stats and a lot on getting the stats that needed to be achieved. 

00:12:12 

As far as performance and outcomes and like kind of corporate speak the year here, but this particular manager always put the people first. 

00:12:20 

And not only. 

00:12:21 

Her staff, but the people will be with serving so in doing that. 

00:12:24 

We were actually. 

00:12:25 

The highest performing team in the state and probably in the country at some points. 

00:12:29 

And she always said. 

00:12:31 

If you put people. 

00:12:32 

First, the stats will look after themselves. 

00:12:34 

So is that? 

00:12:35 

The attitude you’re coming in? 

00:12:36 

We’ve in this sporting via but also in the other things that you’re doing. 

00:12:41 

It’s what I’ve done as a teacher as well. 

00:12:43 

And The funny thing is, I mean, that’s teacher. 

00:12:46 

I’m a math science teacher and I teach PE as well. 

00:12:49 

That’s my profession and training, so I’ve always had a love of numbers and statistics in Nepal, but I’ve known that those numbers alone do not motivate and drive people. 

00:12:59 

It was one of the areas. 

00:13:00 

That I used, I think quite well when I coached the Melbourne Phoenix back early 2002 when I took over from Joyce Brown. 

00:13:10 

Done is instead of looking at individual statistics, that is, each individual you know we look at, you know how many mistakes they make or how many grade intercepts. 

00:13:19 

That wasn’t important. 

00:13:21 

It was our team statistics that countered. 

00:13:24 

Because then you could engender that real understanding that it was we, not me. 

00:13:29 

And if you’re rewarding. 

00:13:31 

Individual behavior, then that’s what you’ll get. 

00:13:35 

You’ll get our individual behavior and people sort of, you know. 

00:13:39 

I guess plotting against each other. 

00:13:41 

Whereas if you reward team behavior that is team statistics, then you get that real sense of team and we I often used to actually in. 

00:13:51 

Even in those days, I would reward the behavior of the players that did the things that I considered to be. 

00:13:59 

The team behaviors, that is, they did such great defence, they might not have got a stat for it, but they created the pressure for our goalkeeper to come out and intercept. 

00:14:09 

Now that is true team behavior and that was the rewarding that was done for the individuals. 

00:14:16 

So I remember it was called the Purple Heart Award because Phoenix in those days was purple and so rewarding. 

00:14:23 

That sort of behavior then helps to everyone to understand what they’re trying to achieve together as a team. 

00:14:29 

Meaning that if we could do all of us, seven on the court plus the bench, if we could repeat those team behaviors again and again, the result would take care of itself. 

00:14:39 

Yes, I knew that. 

00:14:39 

It’s on you. 

00:14:40 

Some of the players, even at the high level, had to have second jobs, but I actually didn’t think that you would have had to have a. 

00:14:47 

Second job as the head coach. 

00:14:50 

I I actually didn’t. 

00:14:50 

You’re working as a. 

00:14:51 

Math teacher as well, well I. 

00:14:53 

Was when I was coaching. 

00:14:55 

The the Adelaide Thunderbirds. 

00:14:57 

Because, you know, that’s why it was such a shock for me actually when I took over the Australian diamonds because it was actually my first full time coaching gig ever. 

00:15:06 

So to get paid to do what you love is it’s the dream. 

00:15:12 

That’s really what I think today. 

00:15:13 

People are, you know? 

00:15:15 

Dreaming to do but never underrate a salary. 

00:15:17 

By the way, my husband always says that. 

00:15:20 

And if you compare my salary at the time to others, even in the Australian Institute of Sport System, then you would get quite cross because the comparisons and the gender gap were clearly there. 

00:15:32 

I remember telling Chris Fagan, who’s now coaching the Brisbane Lions AFL team up in Queensland, he asked me actually what I got. 

00:15:40 

And I told him, you know, said that he just said, that’s embarrassing. 

00:15:43 

And I said, yeah, I agree with you. 

00:15:45 

It’s not good enough for the expectation responsibility for what you’re doing. 

00:15:50 

But our sport couldn’t afford anymore ’cause we’re still reliant on. 

00:15:53 

Government and taxes and that’s why I used to remind the players about that, that the tax taxpayer paying you guys to, to do your job here for the the country and you need to take that responsibility seriously and we need to be the best that we can be and behave in the way that’s the Australian public would expect of us because we are actually getting. 

00:16:14 

Dollars and cents from the government, which most of the sports do. 

00:16:17 

Any case that’s funny how you said before that someone would be upset if. 

00:16:21 

They realize that. 

00:16:22 

That’s how I felt this morning when I was reading your story and I thought, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m angry on your behalf. 

00:16:29 

Because if you were a man, you wouldn’t have been treated this way and. 

00:16:33 

I just want. 

00:16:33 

To tell you it makes me angry. 

00:16:34 

Yeah, I kind of know that. 

00:16:36 

But that’s part of, that’s part of where I am in history. 

00:16:39 

I’m a, I’m a. 

00:16:40 

I’m a bit of a history buff as well and and I understand that my progression through time, I’ve, you know, when I first started I was, I think I was getting $7000 to coach the Melbourne Kestrels back in 1997. 

00:16:55 

And I did have to work full time as a teacher to support my family at the time. 

00:17:00 

Now it it’s just crazy. 

00:17:02 

I always say to people when I talk about it, I’d say don’t ever do that. 

00:17:05 

Don’t try and combine coaching a national level team with a full time job, and I think I was VC coordinator as well. 

00:17:13 

And two children. 

00:17:14 

It’s yeah, it’s not easy. 

00:17:15 

It can be done, but it’s never going to be done successfully all the way it should be done. 

00:17:20 

What annoys me is the lack of fairness. This is what I always say and I this is what when I get, really can get to parliamentarians. When I talk about the fairness factor, I said you’re you’re holding out 50% of your talent if you don’t start doing something about the. 

00:17:37 

Yes, and you also, you’ve put this much money into men’s sport until this date. What have you put into women sport? And then they get it as soon? 

00:17:48 

As you show. 

00:17:48 

Them the numbers are that it’s embarrassing. 

00:17:51 

I was actually really shocked. 

00:17:52 

I mean, clearly I’m a man and so I’ve got my own privileges, but it really shocked me this morning to read that there was no prize money form in sports. 

00:18:01 

The example I was reading was with was with the New Zealand team with their recent win. 

00:18:05 

I think was in the. 

00:18:06 

World Cup and there was no prize money for the the players, but in men’s sport it seems to be quite prolific. They tend to get quite a bit of money in comparison. 

00:18:14 

Yeah, it’s very interesting, like even our last World Cup, which is the one you’re referring to for the Kiwis and they, it was a magnificent look. 

00:18:23 

Can I just tell you what a magnificent day that was? 

00:18:26 

I know we lost by a goal and it was heartbreaking. 

00:18:29 

But being a part of that was also absolutely a great privilege and to see the way that the Silver Ferns went about their business, they were so well coached by Noelene to LA and you’re right, they deserved prize money, but unfortunately the International Netball Federation, which is now called. 

00:18:49 

Weird ****** hasn’t got that dollars and cents behind them, you know, it’s a classic case if you look at the case study of them and how much money they have not. 

00:18:59 

If you compare that to other male sports, it’s it’s just embarrassing. 

00:19:04 

But The thing is, there were many of the countries had to pay and had to take out loans to get to that World Cup. 

00:19:10 

Even in 219, particularly, the African countries have great barriers to overcome, to travel. So Zimbabwe it almost they had qualified for it and they’ve done a great job qualifying to get into the World Cup. 

00:19:24 

But whether they would have enough money to take them, there was another thing and then once they’re there they don’t get the same level of accommodation and high performance. 

00:19:37 

I guess things that we as the Australian team would take for granted, they don’t get all of that. 

00:19:42 

So therefore even within our own World Cup there are many examples of definitely discrimination about the fact that they can’t afford what we can afford. 

00:19:54 

I couldn’t help. 

00:19:54 

But no, you know, you your. 

00:19:56 

Your gratitude for having got to that point and being able to compete at that level, which I think is amazing. 

00:20:01 

When I was growing up I remember it used to be looked upon as something really valuable for someone to. 

00:20:06 

Have even got. 

00:20:07 

To a World Cup or a link. 

00:20:08 

Level, whereas now we seem to be fixated. 

00:20:11 

On what? 

00:20:11 

They win when. 

00:20:11 

They get there, I suppose. 

00:20:13 

What what I what I’m interested to know is how do we kind of separate those two things? 

00:20:17 

Because there is so much value in getting to that peak performance and getting to that level to compete. 

00:20:23 

How do we stop ourselves from being let down that we haven’t actually won the prize? 

00:20:26 

Well, again, it’s a bit like The Hunger Games, isn’t it? 

00:20:30 

Which is which is what sport Australia is often described as. 

00:20:35 

We will give you money if you’re winning. 

00:20:37 

So the Australian swim team gets more money because it’s winning and that’s OK to a certain extent, but there should be the, as I said to you before about. 

00:20:46 

Rewarding behaviors. 

00:20:48 

Yeah, if you reward just winning, then you’re in danger of having behaviors that are created that will lead into cheating or doing things that are not what our country would expect. 

00:21:02 

I.e., sandpaper, gate. 

00:21:04 

So these sorts of things are at the root. 

00:21:08 

Of the cause of the behaviors, in fact. 

00:21:10 

And that’s what’s most disappointing. 

00:21:12 

There is. I think I’m. 

00:21:14 

Getting a feeling many for many of the tweets that I’m reading from because I follow the Olympic Australian Olympic Committee. 

00:21:20 

Of course, I’m, uh, absolute fan of of all our athletes, and I’m also on the VIS board as well, Victorian Institute of Sport board. So it’s just the thriller actually, that I’m. 

00:21:33 

Really appreciating at the moment the thrill of the athletes making the team. 

00:21:37 

That’s actually what’s coming through very strongly for me at the moment. 

00:21:41 

Whether it’s because I’m in my board position, you know, and it’s great that our Victorian athletes are getting into those teams and then winning and being on the podium is a part of it is. 

00:21:52 

There’s gotta be an incentive to for performance as well, but it doesn’t have to be all of it. 

00:21:59 

It strikes me that you were saying that appreciation. 

00:22:01 

Of the journey along the way is really what constitutes success. 

00:22:05 

I’m I’m wondering what else or where else can sport teach us these kind of things that are going to lead us to good mental Wellness so we don’t get fixated on that? 

00:22:15 

It must be a certain way before we can celebrate things. 

00:22:18 

Our Community sport teaches us so much. 

00:22:21 

I I’m, I’m thinking of two aspects here. 

00:22:24 

I’m reflecting back on our visit to Google Headquarters and we were invited in there, I think was back in about 3 years ago. 

00:22:33 

Our Australian diamonds physio, her husband works for Google and he invited us. 

00:22:38 

To come in and spend a day there and we were talking about lots of things and we thought we were going to learn all this great data mining sort of information from them, but actually what they wanted to do was listen to us which. 

00:22:51 

’cause, you know, you know, I felt quite privileged to do that and they wanted to hear about why the diamonds were so successful. 

00:22:59 

But one of. 

00:22:59 

Their biggest things, and this has really struck me at the time, is that they weren’t looking for people necessarily. 

00:23:04 

They had an equilateral triangle and it had was divided up into four parts and that was explaining to. 

00:23:11 

Us how they actually employed their employees at Google. They weren’t just looking for technical capability, they were looking for out-of-the-box, thinking a real team player and leadership capability. So not just technical technical’s 1/4 of that and I remember going. 

00:23:29 

Home to my step son Henry and he’s a rowing coach and saying, look, you know organizations like Google or after people like you who coached teams because they think that if you coach teams you have a great understanding of how teamwork operates and you understand the people side of of of getting people motivated. 

00:23:50 

Or driven or. 

00:23:52 

Kick taunt. 

00:23:52 

Ask so it was really interesting. 

00:23:55 

They actually said they have an airport team, they really love employing netball coaches in their business and it maybe think about it that, you know, net balls being such an important part of all of our country counts and all of our local communities and the things that we’ve been taught. 

00:24:12 

In that setting and educated about no, looking after the bigger picture at we before me, the teamwork aspect of netball has got so many great lessons for people and you know, I can’t list them all here now. 

00:24:28 

But that’s what I’ve got faith in for the future. 

00:24:32 

That’s why I think young people, particularly those who have been involved in in Community sport and team sport, get that. 

00:24:39 

And they want to see more. 

00:24:42 

That’s why they’re different to the employees of the pass. 

00:24:45 

They don’t want to be told what to do as much. 

00:24:48 

They want to be given a vision. 

00:24:50 

And they want to be encouraged on their journey along the way, so they need coaches. 

00:24:55 

So I think I’d be coaching a little bit longer. 

00:24:58 

I think so too. 

00:25:01 

So do you think there’s value then in I’m I’m not a sporty person. 

00:25:05 

I’ve never really been all that interested in sport to be honest, and I think when I. 

00:25:08 

Say that it’s. 

00:25:09 

Because I didn’t like the culture of sport. 

00:25:12 

But you’re painting a very different picture to that culture that I had seen. 

00:25:17 

So is there value in getting involved? 

00:25:19 

Even if you don’t really have any sporting ability, but just for. 

00:25:22 

The joy of. 

00:25:23 

Joining A-Team and being able to have that. 

00:25:25 

Support around you. 

00:25:26 

Yeah, I absolutely do. 

00:25:28 

I mean, I I agree with you. 

00:25:29 

Some, particularly in the past, some of those sporting clubs were not very welcoming and I think most of them are really trying hard to be much more welcoming these days, particularly FLW clubs. 

00:25:41 

I know they work on that very, you know, really hard. 

00:25:44 

But it’s not just sport too. 

00:25:45 

There’s also, you know, in the arts and in music. 

00:25:48 

There’s other. 

00:25:49 

Other avenues of human expression that I think it doesn’t just have to be sport that you will learn these great lessons. 

00:25:57 

You know, working together to achieve a creative outcome as a as a band is. 

00:26:02 

I mean, I often talk about this with my step son, who’s a jazz guitarist, for parallels between his journey of high performance music and mine in sport is being, you know, absolutely. 

00:26:13 

They’ve been aligned too many times and we talk about this quite a bit. 

00:26:17 

We’re still learning all of those great lessons, I think, in different areas, not just in sport. 

00:26:23 

In the last year or so I have spent 20 years on commercial radio and in the last. 

00:26:28 

Year I haven’t. 

00:26:29 

And I’ve been trying to set up my own thing and find. 

00:26:31 

My own new purpose. 

00:26:33 

And part of that has come with me questioning is the reason that I did anything that I ever did. 

00:26:39 

Has it all been kind of just driven by my own anxieties and my need to kind of prove a point? 

00:26:45 

You know, kind of to prove things to my. 

00:26:47 

Both, and I think I can relate very hard to those athletes that feel that. 

00:26:51 

So I wonder how you would teach them that kind of worthiness. 

00:26:55 

’cause it’s a. 

00:26:56 

It’s a thing that I’ve come to understand. 

00:26:58 

It’s like it doesn’t that feeling if you’re always chasing something to fill that kind of anxiety that that personal lack that you feel in whichever category. 

00:27:07 

That you put it in your never going. 

00:27:09 

To fill it up with an outside thing. 

00:27:12 

And you know, I’m not a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist, so I don’t want to get into that area, but what I do try to do as an edge. 

00:27:22 

Data is to support athletes that I have coached to look at not just their sporting life, but to actually look at exploring and expanding their careers, particularly outside of sport, because that was something as a teacher I was always conscious of with the diamonds. 

00:27:43 

Are they studying? 

00:27:44 

Have they got? 

00:27:45 

Something outside of netball because, as I just explained to you before, it’s something all of a sudden something goes wrong in netball. 

00:27:52 

What have you got? 

00:27:54 

That’s why I was always very encouraging of them to put family 1st and their friends, because, you know, you do have to make a lot of sacrifices as an elite athlete and sometimes. 

00:28:06 

You are going to have to. 

00:28:08 

Do not go to the parties and not go to the big celebrations because you’ve got training or you’ve got a big performance that you know is coming up. 

00:28:16 

So when the times come when there’s a decision to be made, I was always the one, well families 1st and encouraging that. 

00:28:24 

So it’s about understanding, I guess, what your first things. 

00:28:29 

So I encourage some of the athletes. 

00:28:31 

Look at some ways to organize their life around getting their personal trademark. 

00:28:36 

Particularly that can be done in a lot of different ways so that they could explore themselves personally. 

00:28:41 

And as I said to you before, looking at you know if they needed assistance and support, getting some help to do that, you know whether it was a therapist or. 

00:28:51 

A sports psychologist or a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist, it didn’t matter as long as they go. 

00:28:57 

That support that they needed to assist him at that part, that part of their life when it got really, really tough, particularly in women. 

00:29:06 

‘s sport. You know, we have the great eating disorders issue as well. Now, I know this happens in men’s sport as well, but particularly in women’s sport. And it is it is a really. 

00:29:18 

Tough issue to work through with athletes and that’s I knew as a coach then that’s when you need a lot of assistance and a lot of support from. 

00:29:28 

Professionals in that area to help overcome what are some very tough issues for that particular athlete. 

00:29:34 

So I’m I’m wondering we’re talking at a particular level of performance here and also self doubt but also Lisa if worked with people at peak performance and getting them to you know great heights. 

00:29:46 

In their careers as well. 

00:29:47 

Is there a strategy that? 

00:29:48 

You’ve got or. 

00:29:49 

You can share that helps us to push through not only those things that hold us. 

00:29:54 

Back, but help us too. 

00:29:56 

The climb higher when we are actually succeeding. 

00:29:58 

Yeah, I guess. 

00:29:59 

I didn’t know it at the time, but I think it was Rahma clean that wrote a piece once about me as a coach. 

00:30:05 

And he said what he admired about me was my ability to be an optimist in the face of adversity and to pick out the good parts and to pick out the parts that we could work on and to be a possibility. 

00:30:19 

Tinker, I don’t know where that came from. 

00:30:21 

I need to do a bit more deep personal work to find out where that’s come from, and that’s bitter work I need to do. 

00:30:28 

But it’s something that I’ve always, I guess, laid over all the programs that I’ve been involved with. 

00:30:33 

And I can remember even back to coaching the under 16 schoolgirls team back in the late 80s, that I thought that sports psychology was extremely important as a part of what I did as a coach in. 

00:30:48 

Not just talking about the technical and tactical aspects of netball, but also. 

00:30:52 

Helping to teach the mental side of the game, the mindset side and what we could achieve together. 

00:31:01 

So not just from an individual point of view, but also from a group point of view. 

00:31:06 

I I think I’ve done that fairly well and I’ve tried to embed that in all the programs that I’ve worked on. 

00:31:13 

So that is both from an individual point of view, working on mental skills. 

00:31:19 

Sport psychology approaches. 

00:31:21 

Whether it was, you know, for Someone Like You know, I think of Shawnee straight away. 

00:31:25 

We worked on a lot of visualization work with shiny. 

00:31:29 

As an individual, I used to sit with her before a Test match and. 

00:31:33 

Just look at some vision and it wasn’t necessarily about. 

00:31:37 

It was not nothing to do with the game plan or what we were going to do. 

00:31:41 

It was about understanding her psychology that she needed me sitting alongside her, looking at that and giving her encouragement and positivity around what she was going to do. 

00:31:53 

Do in the next 6 hours. 

00:31:56 

So that helped her with her individual preparation on game day. 

00:32:01 

So it’s that’s the level I guess of complexity around coaching in Team Sport that I’ve tried to sort of give you a bit of a picture of. 

00:32:08 

The other part of it was I would always set up a theme for the week which is around the team. 

00:32:15 

So what was what were we trying to achieve together as a team? 

00:32:19 

Where did we need to improve and how did we need to focus our mindset on that as well as our physical training? 

00:32:27 

So it would be quite holistic. 

00:32:29 

It would be built into everything we did that week, which included statistics and data. 

00:32:35 

Because my I was very thankful I had a performance analyst, Dr Mitch Mooney, who really gets it, that it’s not just about the numbers, it’s about delivering information to athletes that they can use to assist them in their performance. 

00:32:52 

So as I said to Mitch, I don’t care how much you know, Mitch, I care how much. 

00:32:57 

The athletes know that. 

00:32:58 

Will be the measure of your job. 

00:33:02 

And if he’s listening to this in the future, he’ll be laughing ’cause he he gets it. 

00:33:08 

He I I was so blessed to have some a young person to work with. 

00:33:12 

Like him, that really got the fact that it wasn’t just about the numbers. 

00:33:17 

I’m gonna do a little circuit breaker hand say. 

00:33:19 

Thanks for listening to us. 

00:33:20 

If you love the show, let us know. 

00:33:22 

Hit the subscribe button on your podcast app and show us those five star ratings. Remember to tell your friends about us and check our Patreon page for access to even more content like extended interviews at patreon.com/re frame of mind the more people we get talking about. 

00:33:37 

Mental health, the more supported will all be. 

00:33:41 

I I really like the way you’re actually combining the numbers with with other things as well that are so much wider and more important. 

00:33:48 

Seemingly the visualization I’m really interested in because I’ve heard stories in the past where athletes when they’re in training for a race, like just a running race for example, they won’t pitch themselves. 

00:34:01 

Crossing the finish, trying out pictures themselves. 

00:34:03 

Beyond the finish line, and that’s what helps them to win. 

00:34:05 

So how much does visualization come in with success for you? 

00:34:09 

And do the other sensors also play a part? 

00:34:11 

Oh, absolutely. 

00:34:12 

I’ve done lots of different things here. 

00:34:14 

I must admit, even at the Adelaide Thunderbirds we had a well, I guess you’d call him a psychic. 

00:34:21 

But really, all it was, was a person who was putting us into a calm state before a match and getting us to visualize our performance out on court and what we wanted to do. 

00:34:32 

And his voice was great and he used some, you know? 

00:34:35 

Great little words here and there, and it was something that galvanized us as a group, and everyone else from the outside in looked upon it as a bit of, you know, quite nutty. 

00:34:46 

But we’ve we’ve. 

00:34:47 

I love that though. 

00:34:48 

Yeah, me so. 

00:34:48 

Like it’s such a great. 

00:34:50 

Ah, it was. 

00:34:51 

And you know, good on Jane Woodlands Thompson for putting that together. 

00:34:55 

’cause it was, it was the thing that we needed to help us to get to that next level. 

00:35:00 

It was just that bonding activity that we did together as a group and even someone like Monia Gerard at the time who originally, she laughed. 

00:35:08 

Got it. 

00:35:09 

But she came to really enjoy it and actually use it for her in the future to help, you know, to get. 

00:35:16 

Her in a relaxed. 

00:35:17 

Oh, sorry. 

00:35:18 

Not in a relaxed state, but in the right state on the arousal curve to get her to perform at her best. 

00:35:24 

So even from that point of view, it helped our athletes in that setting. 

00:35:28 

Understand what they needed before. 

00:35:31 

So that’s the great thing about high performance sport. 

00:35:34 

You get to try those things and see if they actually work for you. 

00:35:39 

And as I said to you before, my benting coaching is about positivity and possibility thinking. 

00:35:45 

And another great tip that I got from another great coach, Bill Sweetenham, was to make sure the. 

00:35:51 

Athletes had their 10 best performances on film so they could watch them at anytime and that meant they were visually taking in that information. 

00:36:01 

They were hearing it. 

00:36:02 

They might not be doing it kinesthetically, but they were definitely involved in it. 

00:36:07 

And that was a very rich domain for them to practice and understand their success and understand what it took for them and that they have done it before and they can do it again. 

00:36:18 

Can this be replicated in a non team environment like I know that we’re talking about the things that we’ve done here as teams to to feel this way, but if you’re an individual you’re listening to this maybe. 

00:36:31 

You don’t have. 

00:36:32 

You’re not part of a club, you’re not part of a band, you’re not part of anything. 

00:36:35 

You just you want your own. 

00:36:36 

Can you kind of create a team mentality and those? 

00:36:38 

Those things that have helped with that success. 

00:36:41 

By yourself. 

00:36:43 

You know, I know from some of the, the reading that I’ve done in leadership that, you know, having your own board of directors, which is kind of, you know, it might be your best mates or whatever that give you feedback about how you’re going. 

00:36:56 

Or it could be work colleagues, but you certainly can do it on your own, and these activities are actually done. 

00:37:02 

Particularly the putting together your success file, which I call your success file. 

00:37:07 

You know, you can do that on your own and you can do it in your personal life or your professional life or both. 

00:37:13 

But leading teams where I’m working for at the moment, we definitely do it in both, both professionally and personally. 

00:37:20 

And it’s a very important part of our own development as people within this organization, but it’s also important for our organization to role model with our own employees. 

00:37:31 

But we are actually working on with other, you know, businesses and sporting groups etc. 

00:37:37 

So yes, most definitely you can do this. 

00:37:40 

On your own? 

00:37:41 

I love that idea of setting up a board of directors for yourself as well. 

00:37:44 

That is that’s very unique. 

00:37:46 

I love that. 

00:37:47 

Actually it was written about in one. 

00:37:48 

Of the leadership books that Bianca Chatfield and Lee Russell put out a few years ago, I think was called Change your game. 

00:37:56 

And it’s got some terrific tips about these three individuals, particularly women, but it’s equally applicable to blokes as well be. 

00:38:04 

I think I’ll be looking. 

00:38:05 

In the library for that later today. 

00:38:08 

And you know I. 

00:38:09 

I will tell you that it. 

00:38:11 

’cause it was the first time that I actually put my own success file together was to apply for the Australian Diamonds job. 

00:38:18 

I’d never thought of doing it before. 

00:38:20 

I was so lucky to have as a mentor at the time, Bill Sweetnam, who’s one of our top swimming coaches of the past, and he behaves with great integrity and character, might I add. 

00:38:31 

He he was the one that coached me and also my darling husband helped me out enormously with my application for the job. 

00:38:39 

Bill definitely said put your 10 best performances down there, that’s what you’ve got to get. 

00:38:45 

Across, you know you’ve got a. 

00:38:46 

You’ve got to show the winning difference that you have versus the other applicants. 

00:38:50 

So I treated as an as an exercise in leaving no stone unturned that if I if I didn’t get the position it wasn’t because I hadn’t put everything into it. 

00:39:01 

And I would expect my athletes to do the same. 

00:39:03 

So that’s the way that I went about approaching it. 

00:39:07 

And so putting my 10 best performances down was it was illuminating, it was positive. 

00:39:12 

It was actually helped me to feel much more confident. 

00:39:16 

And you know, it gave me a great sense of satisfaction of what I’ve achieved to that time. 

00:39:20 

But of course there’s a high performance coach you caught up in. 

00:39:24 

You gotta keep getting better, so you’ve got to keep adding to those 10 great performances. 

00:39:30 

I’m really impressed that you brought up the concept of the mentor in this part of the conversation, Lisa, because. 

00:39:36 

So often we, I think as individuals flow, we have to do everything ourselves and come up with the answers ourselves. 

00:39:42 

But you’ve worked with men towards yourself and I’m just wondering what are the qualities you look for in your mentors? 

00:39:48 

Yeah, it’s a really good question. 

00:39:49 

I have mentors that are younger as well. 

00:39:51 

I was really lucky to have some interactions with Holly Ranson, who’s I think about 20 years younger than me and I call her my young me. 

00:40:01 

She teaches me a lot about what young people are thinking and feeling, and I guess I do the same for her from, you know, my perspective back to her. 

00:40:10 

I I guess I’m looking for people who are positive and want to encourage and want to, you know, support you on your journey. 

00:40:18 

You and you need people who are not going to tell you any ******** Basically, if I can use that term, you need you need people who are giving you accurate, honest. 

00:40:24 

Go ahead. 

00:40:29 

Feedback to assist you to move forward in whatever field it is, or even just to chew the fat. 

00:40:36 

I’ve often picked people who’ve been who’ve walked in my shoes, so people that have been high performance coaches. 

00:40:42 

So I had Joyce Brown as my mentor during the time when I was coaching the Australian Diamonds and well before that. 

00:40:49 

She’s been there and done that, so of course around netball and strategy and tactics and all of that, you know, she was just so great to listen to. 

00:40:58 

She would always have me thinking about things in a different way that I had maybe got. 

00:41:04 

And she’s also very, very encouraging and really cared about me as a person. 

00:41:10 

She did that so well with her athletes before it was even, you know, recognized as a way to go. 

00:41:16 

She was doing that back when she was coaching the Australian team, you know, giving them books to read that we’re different to Nepal or encouraging them in their career. 

00:41:25 

Outside of netball so she looked after the whole person. 

00:41:28 

She is a teacher as well and Bill Sweetenham was a great mentor. 

00:41:32 

’cause he really gave me I guess, the hard nosed, hard edge, high performance approach. 

00:41:39 

That really was reaching for the stars and said why not? 

00:41:43 

And why can’t you be the best team in the world and better than the All Blacks? 

00:41:49 

You don’t need the same amount of money. 

00:41:51 

It’s all about work and effort and you know, I guess he encouraged me. 

00:41:55 

In that way, he also taught me about the politics of dealing with boards of directors, how I ’cause I I hated all of that, the politics of it. 

00:42:04 

But I came to realize it was part of what I had to do. 

00:42:08 

In my role and so he definitely helped out with that. 

00:42:13 

As did my husband, who’s been an enormous you know, support our for me in so many different areas, I’m eternally grateful there’s no way I would have gone for. 

00:42:24 

The job without his support. 

00:42:26 

I probably would have still been teaching maths at Wesley College, so you’ve got to have. 

00:42:33 

I guess people who in different areas take a different. 

00:42:37 

Role as well. 

00:42:38 

And and you’re not going to just have one. 

00:42:40 

It sounds like that adage, though. 

00:42:42 

All that. 

00:42:43 

Edge of you know the best. 

00:42:44 

Leaders bring people in around them that have. 

00:42:47 

The skills that they’re. 

00:42:48 

Lacking to kind of create that whole. 

00:42:50 

Picture on its own. 

00:42:51 

Yeah, that’s right. 

00:42:52 

We can’t be good at everything. 

00:42:53 

I I think the best leaders recognize that and know themselves so well that they know they’re going to appoint people who are going to be really good in a particular area that helps the whole program or organization to run at its best. 

00:43:09 

And that’s, you know, certainly. 

00:43:11 

What I’ve experienced over my working life. 

00:43:13 

But also the idea of setting up this kind of network of mentors around you. 

00:43:18 

And like what we were discussing before, even if you’re an individual. 

00:43:21 

You kind of have. 

00:43:22 

Created your own team in doing that. 

00:43:24 

Yeah, definitely. 

00:43:25 

You know that that that’s as human beings were very social. 

00:43:29 

And at the end of the day, you know, we’re going to have people around us who we choose to spend time with. 

00:43:36 

And that’s why you’ve got to be very discerning about who you spend time with. 

00:43:41 

And one of the lessons you learn as you get older is that. 

00:43:44 

Real friends are real friends and. 

00:43:49 

You know colleagues at work are different. 

00:43:51 

You start to learn and understand the differences as you get older and wiser, and you know that’s all part of your individual and personal growth as a person. 

00:44:01 

Understanding who the ways that you can lean on certain people or you. 

00:44:06 

You also need to do the leaning as well. 

00:44:08 

You need to do the supporting and being the mentor. 

00:44:11 

As well, I think actually being a mentor helps you to understand what you need from a mentor as well. 

00:44:20 

I’ve always said that if you can teach something to someone is the best you know highest level of learning which you can do. 

00:44:28 

You were with the diamonds for a long time and it didn’t end, I don’t think, the way that you wanted it. 

00:44:35 

To and that. 

00:44:36 

It’s a very personal thing to me because I’ve helped that had that situation in jobs to where it hasn’t ended in a particularly nice way. 

00:44:46 

My question around these. 

00:44:48 

Is how do you personally take the the time prior to that which is full of good memories and positive ITI things that you’ve learned and not let the trauma of the ending influence that and take that away from you? 

00:45:03 

Yeah, look, it’s. 

00:45:05 

I’m talking to say it’s easy ’cause it’s not and. 

00:45:07 

Yeah, it’s still probably quite fresh, really. 

00:45:10 

Not that long ago. 

00:45:10 

It it truly it is truly it is like last year was probably. 

00:45:12 

Yeah, yeah. 

00:45:16 

Only because we all got confronted by some, what we call a Black Swan event, which was covered. 

00:45:22 

I think all of us having to learn to cope with that probably masked a lot of that work that I needed to do as a person to work through what you described as a trauma, which it is. 

00:45:33 

And so, you know, I’ve definitely got worked. 

00:45:36 

Still to do on that. 

00:45:39 

You know, so that’s something that I certainly need to get sit down and get some more work done in. 

00:45:44 

But also, you know, there are some great things that come. 

00:45:47 

Out of it. 

00:45:48 

As well, you know, leading teams who’ve been terrific to me throughout my time as as the diamonds coach with Ray McClain working with me with the team. 

00:45:57 

On team culture, development and leadership, you know, offered me some part time work and that’s because of, you know. 

00:46:07 

With the work. 

00:46:08 

That we’ve done together as you know organization and and also me as a person, it’s been terrific. 

00:46:13 

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it, but it’s been interesting. 

00:46:16 

I certainly don’t get offered the the jobs that some of the my male compatriots get offered after they have done such huge jobs. 

00:46:27 

Another reason why I was angry on your behalf when we were looking at it this morning. 

00:46:31 

Yeah, but yeah, look, it is what it is. 

00:46:34 

I’m not going to, you know, cry about it. 

00:46:36 

It’s something that I need to recognize and understand and try not to get, you know, to to dark about as well orbit. 

00:46:46 

Because I don’t want to behave like that. 

00:46:49 

So it’s very important that I remember that I’m showing the way for many people, and many people appreciated the dignity and grace that I went with on the day. 

00:46:59 

And that’s the way I wanted to behave. 

00:47:01 

But yeah, you’re right, you can hear it in my voice. 

00:47:04 

It’s still emotional. 

00:47:05 

And and I suppose the other thing I’d say. 

00:47:07 

About that, is that like? 

00:47:09 

I think that we get to this point sometimes in high performance industries, you know, where people in your case know your name and and you’ve had all these amazing achievements and when that thing goes away, that doesn’t have to take our value as a person away with it because you’re still a valuable person. 

00:47:29 

Who has so much more to give? 

00:47:31 

And I think that that’s part of that learning as well is is separating our I don’t. 

00:47:36 

I don’t know if this is a question, Lisa. 

00:47:37 

I just want to tell you, I think that it’s it’s separating our worth as a person. 

00:47:41 

From the work that we do exactly, you’re exactly correct if we’ve got our worth. 

00:47:48 

Tide up, which is what I was talking about before with the. 

00:47:50 

Athletes if you’ve. 

00:47:51 

Got it all tide up in one area. 

00:47:53 

It’s tremendous advice, honestly. 

00:47:55 

I mean, from my perspective, I don’t think I had a lot of things outside of the thing that I was doing. 

00:47:59 

And then when it went away one day, it’s that, well, who am I now and where, what do I want? 

00:48:05 

Like I got to refine my purpose. 

00:48:07 

Exactly. It’s a great shock. 

00:48:09 

And and I guess I’ve had the experience of it happening to me a few times in my life. 

00:48:16 

And that’s the reason why I decided to speak about the the shame I felt when I was 18 in having a my daughter. 

00:48:25 

Not shame. 

00:48:26 

I love my daughter, of course, and she’s fantastic and wonderful, but the shame. 

00:48:30 

I felt at the time of the shock of having a child at such a young age and I didn’t really want to speak about it, but then when I did a leadership course at the Melbourne Business School. 

00:48:41 

The people in my group said that’s a really great story to help people to understand you and what you can do when things like that happen. 

00:48:50 

So I decided to talk about it. 

00:48:54 

Oh, talking about shamley. 

00:48:55 

So you’re gonna make me cry in a minute? 

00:48:58 

Because it’s an unnecessary emotion, that. 

00:49:00 

We shouldn’t. We should. 

00:49:02 

You know, I don’t. 

00:49:02 

I mean, I didn’t. 

00:49:03 

Even say the word shouldn’t but. 

00:49:05 

That are sick waiting. 

00:49:06 

Shame with things he’s well. 

00:49:09 

In those days it was still looked upon with, you know, down peoples noses and you know, I how could that happen to me? 

00:49:18 

I was just, you know, I was in first year medicine at Monash University. 

00:49:23 

It’s not like I didn’t understand the biological issues at the time, but it still happens and that’s that’s the thing. 

00:49:30 

Life still happens. 

00:49:31 

And I think that’s what we’re becoming a little bit more empathetic towards and supportive particularly of our high performers around this. 

00:49:41 

And it’s something that I worry about too. 

00:49:43 

I spoke at a an an AFL Coaches Association conference a few years ago and it was just after. 

00:49:50 

Phil Walsh had been murdered by his son. 

00:49:53 

And he was the coach of the Adelaide Football Club and it really hit home to the coaches at the time and. 

00:50:02 

It’s not it’s not surprising that there was a basically a 180 degree turn around in how the coaches viewed their job and the fact that they needed to lift their game in spending time with their families and understanding the pressures of high performance coaching and being in the media and all of those things. 

00:50:23 

Which I think spent a good thing for. 

00:50:26 

Uhm, how high performance sport, and particularly men sport, is viewed in this country. 

00:50:31 

It’s still not perfect, but there’s much more consideration of people, families and their life outside of coaching. 

00:50:39 

As sport taught you to be resilient or have you taught you or sports people to be resilient? 

00:50:45 

A great question. 

00:50:46 

I think it’s a bit of both to be honest. 

00:50:48 

I think we’ve, if we understand that sport in its own purist. 

00:50:53 

I guess manifestation is actually a gain. 

00:50:57 

It’s it’s something that we do as humans together that allows us to have social contact. 

00:51:03 

It gives us a bit of competitiveness. 

00:51:05 

If you’re really thinking about it in a conspiracy theory way, you’d say the government has to have sport for people, because what would people do? 

00:51:16 

Go to the theater. 

00:51:17 

So it keeps him very busy, and then if they’re spectating it, it makes them spectate that rather than worry about what we’re doing as politicians. 

00:51:25 

Any case, that’s another story, but certainly from my point of view, it’s taught me lessons that have been important that I’ve applied to my life. 

00:51:35 

And I’ve applied things from my life to my sport, so particularly coaching and teaching has definitely been a, you know, a great alignment. 

00:51:45 

And each one has taught the other to be better. 

00:51:48 

So I think the idea of it is that it. 

00:51:51 

It assists with life, but then you’ve also got to be getting your own learning about resilience outside of sport as well. 

00:51:59 

So it teaches you good lessons, but I think you can teach it good lessons as well. 

00:52:03 

You described yourself as a possibility thinker before. 

00:52:06 

Is that? 

00:52:07 

Do you think that’s a natural trait or that’s something you’ve taught yourself as well? 

00:52:10 

Yeah, that that’s what I just. 

00:52:12 

I can’t. 

00:52:13 

I I need to examine that a lot more. 

00:52:15 

That’s something that I need to examine as part of my personal trademark. 

00:52:18 

Yes, definitely more work to be done. 

00:52:22 

I think that being naturally inclined to seeing the possibilities instead of the lost opportunities is the state of mind that I. 

00:52:31 

I mean, I’m searching for, but I think that we’re all searching for. 

00:52:34 

To be an optimist naturally would be the ultimate. 

00:52:36 

Yeah, and and it’s that. 

00:52:38 

Yeah, it’s that old idea of Carol do wikis idea. 

00:52:41 

Of growth mindset versus fixed mindset. 

00:52:44 

I’m I’m one for I I really don’t like categorization even though I’m a bit of a science. 

00:52:49 

Scientists, really. 

00:52:51 

But, and I know you need it, but there’s there’s many, you know, there’s many. 

00:52:56 

It’s a continuum, I think, and different circumstances in experiences. 

00:53:01 

You have in your life kind of predicate whether you’re gonna look at it from a growth mindset or a fixed mindset, and to me, if you’re looking at something from a fixed mindset. 

00:53:12 

Yep, that’s when you’ve got to really look at yourself because I think they’re the sort of ingrained behaviors that have come about without a lot of consciousness. 

00:53:22 

And so that’s where I would, as I said to you before, that’s what I would work on as a person is to look at those areas. 

00:53:29 

What would you say is in the Lisa Alexander Toolkit for daily life in success? 

00:53:34 

Ah, well, I definitely follow Stephen Covey principle of time management. 

00:53:40 

And for those who haven’t read, it’s called the seven habits of highly effective people. 

00:53:45 

I think it’s been around for many years and I often recommend this to people starting out their working life to start to get. 

00:53:52 

Used to how to balance all the competing priorities in their life and it just it’s a really good process to work through on finding out what your what your mission is, what your personal TM is, and then what are your priorities. 

00:54:06 

What are the First things first that you need to put into your schedule? 

00:54:09 

It’s definitely something I’ve worked through and keep. 

00:54:12 

Working through all the time, I think also for me it’s about understanding what motivates me and drives me and. 

00:54:21 

Ensuring that I have that time of creativity in my day somewhere, whether it’s reading or it’s listening to music or it’s meditating, or it’s just having joy outside. 

00:54:34 

Like, I’ve really discovered the garden in the last 18 months since we bought our property here in Avoca. 

00:54:41 

And it really makes you humble. 

00:54:43 

Understanding and learning about nature that do it, how great the soil has to be, gives you such great lessons. 

00:54:51 

Lisa, we’ve so appreciated chatting to you this morning. 

00:54:54 

It’s been absolutely beautiful. 

00:54:56 

Is there anything that trap you wanted to mention that we didn’t cover? 

00:54:56 

Trade 104. 

00:55:00 

I think just that idea of the finding your purpose is important, both as an individual and as a team and and it’s as a coach I’ve sought to. 

00:55:11 

I guess understand and support individuals to do that so that that would assist me to coach. 

00:55:18 

That athlete, better a person, better in in whatever shape or form it was. 

00:55:23 

And you know, it’s just been a process that I’ve gone through. 

00:55:27 

I’ve learned more and more about it over time. 

00:55:30 

You know, if you if you crystal clear about your purpose, even in a team or a business, that that you know the barriers that come up are a lot easier. 

00:55:38 

To deal with when you’ve. 

00:55:40 

Got that alignment across your organization. 

00:55:42 

So I just encourage people to to do that and to work on, on that side, which in leading teams we call the dynamics. 

00:55:51 

And so just making sure we work on both the dynamics and the mechanics and for those of us that are perfectionists and procrastinators. 

00:55:59 

Yes, uh. 

00:56:01 

My advice is I’ve trained many people, but particularly my step son who is very stubborn to get around his procrastination by drawing or drawing a map or drawing anything. 

00:56:14 

About the project he has, so to get him started, that’s what he does and that’s what I do. 

00:56:20 

I draw, I do notes, I create and rough out to help me with my early preparation. 

00:56:26 

It’s funny how you talk about perfectionism and procrastination in the same voice, because I I think those two are so intrinsically. 

00:56:26 

That’s funny. 

00:56:33 

Linked and I think people. 

00:56:35 

Mistake procrastination for laziness. 

00:56:37 

But I mean, it’s not. 

00:56:40 

It’s often. 

00:56:40 

Yeah, it’s definitely not. 

00:56:41 

Yeah, yeah, you can’t. 

00:56:42 

It’s the block. 

00:56:43 

You want it to be perfect. 

00:56:45 

And if it can’t be perfect, then you don’t. 

00:56:46 

Do anything that’s right and something that I’ve learned over time because I was a very, very much a perfectionist in my school days. 

00:56:56 

It sounds really weird ’cause I I got, you know, great Marks and everything at school and I left a lot of stuff to the last. 

00:57:02 

In it but. 

00:57:03 

As I’ve got better at organizing my time and valuing my time. 

00:57:08 

And that’s where Stephen Covey talks a lot about making sure you’re working on the important work and it’s not in the urgent category yet. 

00:57:15 

But make sure you set aside time to do your important work, otherwise it becomes urgent and you become chaotic this work. 

00:57:21 

None of us will lay. 

00:57:24 

Sometimes we do, and that’s the thing people get addicted to. 

00:57:27 

That you know. 

00:57:28 

That’s where that’s where coaches can be addicted to. 

00:57:31 

And if they understand themselves, they understand that they get very addicted to the the contest. 

00:57:37 

And that affects their daily life and they find it hard to relax. 

00:57:41 

So that’s some of the things, areas that definitely coaches need to work on this. 

00:57:46 

Understanding how to relax and how to get out of that cycle and I think Alistair Clarkson plays guitar and sings, which I think is great. 

00:57:53 

How did you find your? 

00:57:55 

Your purpose? 

00:57:56 

I’ve done a bit of work on it, I’ve done a lot of yoga and also some some Gurjar 4th way work as well. 

00:58:05 

And for me it’s been about that ongoing, I guess, learning. 

00:58:11 

About what makes me along with my husband, who’s done a lot more work in it than I’ve done. 

00:58:17 

It’s that journaling everyday and learning more about myself and observing myself that I think has been the most important part of my why. 

00:58:27 

It hasn’t changed too much overtime, but you definitely have to revisit it, and that’s the work that you need to do on yourself. 

00:58:34 

I think journaling for me has been. 

00:58:36 

An incredible tool over the last 12 months. 

00:58:38 

So I lost my dad in the middle of the pandemic last year, and every day since I’ve been just sitting down every morning a little appointment with myself just to journal my thoughts. 

00:58:48 

And it’s not. 

00:58:48 

Something I don’t think I’ll I’ll probably ever read over again, but I think you’re right in saying that it’s a powerful tool and helping to to. 

00:58:54 

Release things and move you. 

00:58:55 

Forward, yeah. It certainly gives you that opportunity to observe yourself, which is very important in that journey of self-awareness and it. 

00:59:04 

You know, sometimes it gives you a breakthrough that you just need and it just gives you that. 

00:59:08 

It’s sort of like having a a mentor, but it’s on paper, so it’s getting it out of your head and getting it onto paper and making it real. 

00:59:16 

That’s been very important to me as well. 

00:59:18 

Creating your own team, you and you. 

00:59:21 

You and. 

00:59:22 

Me and mate. 

00:59:24 

I enjoyed talking to Lisa so much. 

00:59:27 

Yeah, she was really good sport. 

00:59:29 

You just. 

00:59:31 

If it’s not. 

00:59:32 

An analogy. 

00:59:32 

It’s a pun with you. 

00:59:33 

I know, right? 

00:59:34 

There was no. 

00:59:35 

Room for an analogy today. 

00:59:36 

So apartment has to be. 

00:59:37 

But just to think about how this person can be seriously one of the best of the best of the best. 

00:59:43 

And that’s not enough. 

00:59:45 

And it feels like everyday life, doesn’t it? 

00:59:48 

God does to me. 

00:59:49 

But then also, you know where we ended that interview with her. 

00:59:52 

She was working for leading teams, which was good ’cause. 

00:59:55 

He was helping her coach athletes still. 

00:59:57 

But in between the time we spoke to her and now she actually got offered another position as the new head of high performance and assistant coach for the London Pulse. 

01:00:06 

So she moved to the northern hemisphere. 

01:00:08 

For about two years or so to work in. 

01:00:10 

The UK Super League. 

01:00:11 

And to be honest, why wouldn’t they snapped her up after their track record? 

01:00:15 

Come on. 

01:00:15 

I mean, OK, so the Australians can’t see how. 

01:00:18 

People, she is well go overseas. 

01:00:20 

Yeah, but you know. 

01:00:21 

We get, uh, clobbering now. 

01:00:24 

And also, I can’t remember whether it was this interview she said it to us or it’s just the articles I’ve read about our online since. 

01:00:30 

But she’s kind of keen on also coaching AFL. 

01:00:32 

So you know guys, if you’re listening AFL, who’s in charge of AFL now? 

01:00:37 

I don’t know that woman that didn’t write me back when I asked it to. 

01:00:39 

Be on the podcast if you’re listening. 

01:00:40 

McGuire? Any McGuire? 

01:00:42 

Hey, McGuire, that another woman. 

01:00:44 

The woman who was in chat anyway, if you’re listening, you know. 

01:00:46 

Lisa Alexander will will do a. 

01:00:47 

Give Lisa a look in, you know. 

01:00:49 

Good reference for her hits. 

01:00:50 

Well, well, you just gotta listen to this interview and. 

01:00:51 

You made our reference. 

01:00:54 

She speaks for herself, like her record speaks for itself and coaching is coaching. 

01:00:58 

I reckon she would really make a great coach in any context. 

01:01:02 

So if you want to, give us some support and follow on her journey. 

01:01:05 

Check out our show notes for places where you can find Lisa, but you can also connect with her on Twitter of all places. 

01:01:11 

So give her a shout out, tell her hi from. 

01:01:13 

Us and that. 

01:01:14 

You heard her on re frame of mind. 

01:01:16 

So one thing that lease has shown us is that she is magnificent at. 

01:01:20 

Adapting to change. 

01:01:21 

Which is a skill. 

01:01:22 

That I don’t know about you, Andy. 

01:01:23 

But I would like to learn. 

01:01:24 

Yeah, absolutely. 

01:01:25 

And next time on re frame of mind, we’re talking about adapting to change with Doctor Tim Sharp and Doctor Kimberly Norris. 

01:01:32 

Change in and of itself is not. 

01:01:35 

Actually, good or bad, it’s simply different. 

01:01:38 

We’d like to thank today’s guests for sharing their personal stories and insights, and For more information on any of the subjects, guests, or references used in this episode, please see our show notes or re frame of mind.com dot AU. 

01:01:50 

Re frame of mind is a welcome change media production. 

 

 

Download transcript at this link:

Coming soon

Check out all the guests who appear this season:

Former Australian Diamonds Head Coach, now head of high performance and assistant coach for the London Pulse

Award-winning inspirational speaker, consulting CEO and author.

Board Director, Mentor. Mother, Entrepreneurial thinker and innovative strategist. Empowerer of women.

World-leading Australian neuroscientist in occupational therapy and stroke rehabilitation and recovery research.

Co-founder and Managing Director of Thankyou.

Australian social psychologist, currently Scientia Professor at the University of New South Wales, Sydney.

Diversity trans-relator, educator, life coach, speaker and consultant. 

Best-selling author, entrepreneur and global presenter.

Wellbeing Educator specialising in prevention of burnout and empathy fatigue.

Business expert, best-selling author and international keynote speaker on mastering the power of mindsets.

Highly-awarded cognitive neuropsychologist at the Brain and Mind Centre at the University of Sydney.

Founder and CEO of LAJOIE SKIN, qualified and experienced chemist, marketer with a passion for sustainability and the dance floor.

Internationally recognised public speaker, educator and researcher on high performance.

Experienced senior executive and board director with an international track record of leading teams to address complex challenges.

Professor of Entrepreneurship, La Trobe Business School, La Trobe University.

Inspirational speaker & performance coach turning near death into durability model of strength, self-esteem, overcoming adversity.

Highly experienced strategist, leadership champion and expert in the area of human potential.

Yorta Yorta/Ngarrindjeri man, Australian Indigenous Comic Con Director, Founder of Indiginerd popculture company.

Director of Positive Minds Australia, widely published Author of Resilience, Wellbeing, Confidence & Social Emotional Intelligence.

Associate Head of Learning and Teaching in Psychology, Director of Postgraduate Professional Training Programs in Counselling and Psychology.

Australian doctor, lawyer, scientist and disability advocate.

Pilot, mentor and motivational speaker with an inspiring story and message of resilience.

Author and coach on resilience in the face of stress, anxiety and fear created by a life changing diagnosis.

Senior Lecturer and Deputy Clinical Director with the School of Psychological Science at UWA.

Australia’s very own ‘Dr Happy‘, at the forefront of the positive psychology movement and founder of The Happiness Institute.

Ultramarathon runner, Maori Sportswoman of the Year (2008), 2 x best-selling author. 

Australian expert on mental health, Director of The Matilda Centre for Research in Mental Health and Substance Use, Principal Research Fellow at the University of Sydney.

Award-winning performer, comedian, author, educator and broadcaster.

Professor of the Department of Psychology, Director of the Music, Sound and Performance Lab at Macquarie University.

New Zealnad explorer, public speaker and best-selling author.

Queer, non-binary, Jewish writer, performer, activist and public speaker based in Naarm/ Birraranga / Melbourne.

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